Post by aldarron on Dec 14, 2009 10:29:49 GMT -6
*really long post warning*
Most, (but not quite all) of us began playing D&D sometime after the publication of Supplement 1, and really the Holmes rules. So naturally we look at the original Three Little Brown Books through the lens of the game we know. The 3LBB’s were a collaborative effort between Gygax and Arneson providing a mish mash set of guidelines to be used with Chainmail and Outdoor Survival to create your own custom adventure campaign. One simple reason for this is that Greyhawk and Blackmoor were using significantly different mechanics and houserules. Working from Chainmail was a way of finding some common ground. This sort of generic fallback to Chainmail and Outdoor Survival as starting points also allowed groups to customize their own rules. On the whole, though the 3LBB’s are a product of compromises between the two authors; compromises that its become apparent neither author was really satisfied with. I suspect that it was partly because of the rules and methods disagreements that arose between the two, that Gygax published D&D earlier than Arneson liked, deciding that instead of making an imperfect compromise the final word, their would be two supplements to allow each author to showcase his own way of doing things. We then get within a year, supplement I, (Greyhawk), followed by Supplement II (Blackmoor). Arneson really missed his opportunity with Supplement II. His approach to the rules was more cavalier than that of Gygax, and he probably saw no need to reinvent the wheel so soon. Further, by the time it was published, Greyhawk had already redefined the game. Supplement II’s editor Tim Kask has related on Dragonsfoot that “incompatibilities” and “houserules” in Arnesons material were “re-imagined” to conform to the current form of D&D. Hence we have the game we all know and love. But what about that original, compromise D&D?
Gygax did the actual writing of the Three Little Brown Books, but some of the text appears to be transcribed from Arnesons notes and correspondence, reflecting his style of play, as Nicolas Dessaux and I have been uncovering in some of the Blackmoor threads. At times, then some statements in the LBBs seem to reflect Arnesons approach more that Gygax’s, and that has led to a lot of confusion.
We’ve been uncovering Arnesons way of doing things, and his way of saying things, in the Blackmoor combat threads, all of which has led me to see the 3LBB’s in a new light. I used to think Supplement I Greyhawk was merely an expansion, with new rules, a more granular approach to weapons etc. Now I think Greyhawk wasn’t just a supplement to the original rules. It was a major revision.
The heart of the revision can be said to be the turning of the “alternative combat system” from a sidenote, to the core mechanic. By this I mean that I’m convinced the majority of the encounter rules in the 3LBB’s are designed to function with Chainmail rules, especially the Man to Man rules, and only secondary, if any consideration is given to compatibility with the alternate combat system.
The main point of confusion that arises in the 3LBB’s regarding encounter rules is a point of confusion between Gygax and Arneson themselves. It’s the meaning of the term “Hit Dice”. I don’t know if Gygax was aware of this although Arneson certainly was later on. Gygax introduces the term as "Dice for Accumaltive Hits (Hit Dice)". This sounds like something relating to damage, but Gygax explains, Hit Dice are dice used to generate a creatures hit points – that’s it.
Thing is, for Arneson Hit Dice were also "Dice for Accumaltive Hits (Hit Dice)", where “hits” means damage, not hit points. There is no doubt about this.
First we have very good evidence from Arnesons First Fantasy Campaign and Temple of the Frog that hit points were fixed numbers “with variations” (FFC 1980, p62) for size and age. These numbers were originally drawn from the point values of creatures in Chainmail. (see Blackmoor combat thread for more detail)
Second we have lots of unequivocal references to Hit Dice in the FFC where it is either best interpreted or can only mean damage dice. At a point discussing a column for damage done by a dragons breath we are even given a sort of definition of the label HD:
“HD = Number of Hit dice rolled for victim of breath attack for type/level of Dragon” (p83 1977, p57 1980)
Third, Arneson continued to use the term Hit Dice to mean damage dice as late as 1978 where it is found throughout his Adventures in Fantasy roll playing game. Like his earlier monsters, AiF mosters have fixed Hit Point values. Here perhaps is our clue to the source of the confusion over the Hit Dice term, because, in order to generate the Average Hit Points of a creature in Adventures in Fantasy, one simply takes the average value of the damage dice – the Hit Dice. Its d10 based, so a 6HD creature will also have 30 HP. (5*6). It’s not clear from FFC, but it may well be that Arneson always used this practice. So when he taught the game to Gygax, he may well have explained that he derived Hit points for new, non Chainmail monsters from their Hit Dice. For whatever reasons Gygax retained that aspect of HD, changing it to a value you roll for, rather than an average, and dropped the term in reference to the #of dice you roll for damage.
All of this goes to say that when we encounter the term “HD” in the 3LBB’s we have to think twice about what it means and look at the context to be sure. The same can be said for old interviews and articles, especially those of Arneson.
Combat is, of course, the most effected. Whether your d6's are attack dice and damage dice, or just damage dice would apparently depend on whether you were using the Chainmail (d6's to hit and damage) or Alternative (d20 to hit, d6's for damage) combat systems.
“The basic system is that from CHAINMAIL, with one figure representing one man or creature. Melee can be conducted with the combat table given in Volume I or by the CHAINMAIL system, with scores equaling a drive back or kill equal only to a hit.” (p25, Underworld and Wilderness Adventures)
In either case, a lot more dice are involved, and it has nothing to do with the players weapons. This quote from "Monsters and Treasures" further explains it:
"Attack/Defense capabilities versus normal men are simply a matter of allowing one roll as a man-type for every hit die, with any bonuses being given to only one of the attacks, i.e. a Troll would attack six times, once with a +3 added to the die roll. (Combat is detailed in Vol. III.)" p5.
Likewise, defense bonuses, such as magic armor are about removing a number of d6’s.
“Armor proper subtracts its bonus from the hit dice of the opponents of its wearer. If the shield's bonus is greater than that of the armor, there is a one-third chance that the blow will be caught by the shield, thus giving the additional subtraction.” (p31, Monsters and Treasure)
The rule is actually straightforward. Whole d6's are removed from the roll. Some have misunderstood “hit dice” to mean “chance to hit” or “hit point damage”, but those readings make the unlikely assumption that the writer himself mistakenly used the wrong term. It’s no mistake, its just the Arnesonian use of the term. Thus +3 armor could only be hit by an opponent using 4 or more dice for attack/damage using Chainmail Man to Man or damage rolls only when using the alternate combat system.
Jason Vey's Supplement VI, Forbidden Lore, is of course, the place to turn for a closer look at using Chainmail with OD&D.
Most, (but not quite all) of us began playing D&D sometime after the publication of Supplement 1, and really the Holmes rules. So naturally we look at the original Three Little Brown Books through the lens of the game we know. The 3LBB’s were a collaborative effort between Gygax and Arneson providing a mish mash set of guidelines to be used with Chainmail and Outdoor Survival to create your own custom adventure campaign. One simple reason for this is that Greyhawk and Blackmoor were using significantly different mechanics and houserules. Working from Chainmail was a way of finding some common ground. This sort of generic fallback to Chainmail and Outdoor Survival as starting points also allowed groups to customize their own rules. On the whole, though the 3LBB’s are a product of compromises between the two authors; compromises that its become apparent neither author was really satisfied with. I suspect that it was partly because of the rules and methods disagreements that arose between the two, that Gygax published D&D earlier than Arneson liked, deciding that instead of making an imperfect compromise the final word, their would be two supplements to allow each author to showcase his own way of doing things. We then get within a year, supplement I, (Greyhawk), followed by Supplement II (Blackmoor). Arneson really missed his opportunity with Supplement II. His approach to the rules was more cavalier than that of Gygax, and he probably saw no need to reinvent the wheel so soon. Further, by the time it was published, Greyhawk had already redefined the game. Supplement II’s editor Tim Kask has related on Dragonsfoot that “incompatibilities” and “houserules” in Arnesons material were “re-imagined” to conform to the current form of D&D. Hence we have the game we all know and love. But what about that original, compromise D&D?
Gygax did the actual writing of the Three Little Brown Books, but some of the text appears to be transcribed from Arnesons notes and correspondence, reflecting his style of play, as Nicolas Dessaux and I have been uncovering in some of the Blackmoor threads. At times, then some statements in the LBBs seem to reflect Arnesons approach more that Gygax’s, and that has led to a lot of confusion.
We’ve been uncovering Arnesons way of doing things, and his way of saying things, in the Blackmoor combat threads, all of which has led me to see the 3LBB’s in a new light. I used to think Supplement I Greyhawk was merely an expansion, with new rules, a more granular approach to weapons etc. Now I think Greyhawk wasn’t just a supplement to the original rules. It was a major revision.
The heart of the revision can be said to be the turning of the “alternative combat system” from a sidenote, to the core mechanic. By this I mean that I’m convinced the majority of the encounter rules in the 3LBB’s are designed to function with Chainmail rules, especially the Man to Man rules, and only secondary, if any consideration is given to compatibility with the alternate combat system.
The main point of confusion that arises in the 3LBB’s regarding encounter rules is a point of confusion between Gygax and Arneson themselves. It’s the meaning of the term “Hit Dice”. I don’t know if Gygax was aware of this although Arneson certainly was later on. Gygax introduces the term as "Dice for Accumaltive Hits (Hit Dice)". This sounds like something relating to damage, but Gygax explains, Hit Dice are dice used to generate a creatures hit points – that’s it.
Thing is, for Arneson Hit Dice were also "Dice for Accumaltive Hits (Hit Dice)", where “hits” means damage, not hit points. There is no doubt about this.
First we have very good evidence from Arnesons First Fantasy Campaign and Temple of the Frog that hit points were fixed numbers “with variations” (FFC 1980, p62) for size and age. These numbers were originally drawn from the point values of creatures in Chainmail. (see Blackmoor combat thread for more detail)
Second we have lots of unequivocal references to Hit Dice in the FFC where it is either best interpreted or can only mean damage dice. At a point discussing a column for damage done by a dragons breath we are even given a sort of definition of the label HD:
“HD = Number of Hit dice rolled for victim of breath attack for type/level of Dragon” (p83 1977, p57 1980)
Third, Arneson continued to use the term Hit Dice to mean damage dice as late as 1978 where it is found throughout his Adventures in Fantasy roll playing game. Like his earlier monsters, AiF mosters have fixed Hit Point values. Here perhaps is our clue to the source of the confusion over the Hit Dice term, because, in order to generate the Average Hit Points of a creature in Adventures in Fantasy, one simply takes the average value of the damage dice – the Hit Dice. Its d10 based, so a 6HD creature will also have 30 HP. (5*6). It’s not clear from FFC, but it may well be that Arneson always used this practice. So when he taught the game to Gygax, he may well have explained that he derived Hit points for new, non Chainmail monsters from their Hit Dice. For whatever reasons Gygax retained that aspect of HD, changing it to a value you roll for, rather than an average, and dropped the term in reference to the #of dice you roll for damage.
All of this goes to say that when we encounter the term “HD” in the 3LBB’s we have to think twice about what it means and look at the context to be sure. The same can be said for old interviews and articles, especially those of Arneson.
Combat is, of course, the most effected. Whether your d6's are attack dice and damage dice, or just damage dice would apparently depend on whether you were using the Chainmail (d6's to hit and damage) or Alternative (d20 to hit, d6's for damage) combat systems.
“The basic system is that from CHAINMAIL, with one figure representing one man or creature. Melee can be conducted with the combat table given in Volume I or by the CHAINMAIL system, with scores equaling a drive back or kill equal only to a hit.” (p25, Underworld and Wilderness Adventures)
In either case, a lot more dice are involved, and it has nothing to do with the players weapons. This quote from "Monsters and Treasures" further explains it:
"Attack/Defense capabilities versus normal men are simply a matter of allowing one roll as a man-type for every hit die, with any bonuses being given to only one of the attacks, i.e. a Troll would attack six times, once with a +3 added to the die roll. (Combat is detailed in Vol. III.)" p5.
Likewise, defense bonuses, such as magic armor are about removing a number of d6’s.
“Armor proper subtracts its bonus from the hit dice of the opponents of its wearer. If the shield's bonus is greater than that of the armor, there is a one-third chance that the blow will be caught by the shield, thus giving the additional subtraction.” (p31, Monsters and Treasure)
The rule is actually straightforward. Whole d6's are removed from the roll. Some have misunderstood “hit dice” to mean “chance to hit” or “hit point damage”, but those readings make the unlikely assumption that the writer himself mistakenly used the wrong term. It’s no mistake, its just the Arnesonian use of the term. Thus +3 armor could only be hit by an opponent using 4 or more dice for attack/damage using Chainmail Man to Man or damage rolls only when using the alternate combat system.
Jason Vey's Supplement VI, Forbidden Lore, is of course, the place to turn for a closer look at using Chainmail with OD&D.
To be honest, I am only newly exposed to the Chainmail rules and have never run a battle with them, so I had not paid much attention to the distinctions between Appendix A and B in relation to the OD&D rules. I singled out the Man to Man rules in general because of the clear use of multiple attack/damage dice and because those are the rules that get pointed to most. 
