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Post by waysoftheearth on Mar 19, 2009 5:18:03 GMT -6
This thread was created mostly to answer these questions: What are the 'mechanics' of your skill system? How are points/ranks/whatever you use assigned, etc.? How are skill checks preformed? Things like that... Any comments or thoughts are most welcome of course  Skills?Firstly, I should explain that I take "skills" to mean PC knowledge and/or competencies that are beyond the scope of what the players could reasonably be expected to contribute to the game. Tests of resourcefulness –- searching, problem solving, negotiation, decision making, etc. -- are always left to the player's ingenuity. Tests of folk lore, forgotten Draconic languages, animal husbandry, weapon smithing, medieval dance, ability to swim, etc. are where I see "skills" coming into play. Skill AdvancementEvery PC gets to choose one skill specialisation at each new level -- including 1st. (A specialisation can also be in a fighting-style or a magic-sphere instead of skill -- but that's a bit off topic). A PC can have any number of specialisations in any one skill (or fighting-style or magic-school). Using SkillsEvery PC can try anything. I only use skill rolls to resolve things that seem hard or risky. Most of the time just describing what you want your PC to do is good enough for me. If your description sounds plausible, then you succeed without a roll. If your description sounds implausible or risky, then you'll need to make a skill roll and let the dice decide. To resolve skill checks I use a variant 2d6 system that works like this: 1. Every PC can roll 2d6 for any skill check. 2. A specialised PC can roll 1 additional d6 for each degree of specialisation in the skill being used. 3. Pick the best 2 dice -- discard the rest. 4. Modifiy the result with the PC's most relevant ability score (a +1, 0, or -1 modifier). I secretly set the target number, usually to 8 or 10, and the player rolls to see what happens next... I like this system because: a) There is no "modifier inflation", b) Regardless of how specialised a PC becomes, it doesn't change the possible range of results, c) Each additional degree of specialisation yields less benefit than the last. This introduces some meaningful choices for the player, and d) With this system, specialised means "reliable" not "super powered". Enjoy |
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Post by coffee on Mar 19, 2009 9:58:58 GMT -6
Very nice!
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Post by machfront on Mar 19, 2009 21:13:53 GMT -6
Interesting.
So, to make sure I follow... a specialization is just essentially a 'point' in one of the skills (that you listed in the other thread)?
At char gen a PC selects one of the backgrounds and puts one specialization in a skill, yes?
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Post by waysoftheearth on Mar 20, 2009 0:07:08 GMT -6
a specialization is just essentially a 'point' in one of the skills (that you listed in the other thread)? Yes, exactly. I prefer not to call them "skills" because that might imply that some PCs do or don't have certain skills which isn't true. I'll mentioned the skills again for reference: The 4 backgrounds are: Court, Faerie, Rural, Urban. The 8 skills are: Academia, Animalia, Artifice, Athletics, Craftsmanship, Medicine, Subterfuge, Wilderness. At char gen a PC selects one of the backgrounds and puts one specialization in a skill, yes? Yes, that's pretty much it. It also occurred to me that I should have mentioned the driving force behind my skill system: That is simply that most players enjoy the notion of customising their PCs! This little system gives players that opportunity without upsetting the game balance or adding too much overhead -- or leastwise it seems so to me |
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Post by machfront on Mar 20, 2009 4:30:45 GMT -6
I really enjoy simple and lite skills systems and I'm really digging this.
To clarify:
You said a specialization goes into a skill upon each level. Is this also true for the backgrounds, or is that something that stays static?
I guess I'm not grasping if you're saying that backgrounds and skills are the same thing with different names, or if they are truely seperate concepts.
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Post by waysoftheearth on Mar 20, 2009 6:28:12 GMT -6
I'm not grasping if you're saying that backgrounds and skills are the same thing with different names, or if they are truely seperate concepts. Hey Machfront, thanks for your interest Backgrounds work just the same as other skills. The only difference between backgrounds and skills is that a player can't (at least not without a good explanation) improve a PC's background at level up time. I figure that a background is something the PC did before becoming an adventurer -- that's why it's called a background. On the other hand, if a PC spends five years of game time in a rural village "working the fields", the referee might grant the PC the benefit of a rural background -- even if the same PC was originally a city slicker. |
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Post by machfront on Mar 20, 2009 16:47:27 GMT -6
I figure that a background is something the PC did before becoming an adventurer -- that's why it's called a background. Duuhh... Hello, I'm Eric and I'll be your moron today.   On the other hand, if a PC spends five years of game time in a rural village "working the fields", the referee might grant the PC the benefit of a rural background -- even if the same PC was originally a city slicker. Hm. Makes sense, and all without even a half page of rules, if any. Nice. Very nice, indeed. In fact, have an Exalt! So, a typical, say, 3rd level PC would be something on the order of: Rural: Athletics 2, Subterfuge 1 or maybe Court: Academia 3 or Court: Academia 1, Artifice 1, Subterfuge 1. Now, if I've got that... Then please speak to me a bit more concerning your target number and it's scale of (what you consider) what's appropriate for Easy - Crazy-A** Difficult. Then I'll stop wasting your time. ;D |
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Post by Random on Mar 20, 2009 19:44:09 GMT -6
The explanation is not a waste of time. I like this a lot better than normal NWP rules.
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Post by waysoftheearth on Mar 21, 2009 6:41:25 GMT -6
Then please speak to me a bit more concerning your target number and it's scale of (what you consider) what's appropriate for Easy - Crazy-A** Difficult. Then I'll stop wasting your time. ;D Hey Machfront, definitely not a waste of my time -- actually I'm very happy that anyone is interested. As I mentioned in my OP, I tend to not require a roll when something is easy. Of course easy is a relative term. If you like the idea that things get tougher with lower dungeon levels, then a rough guide for target numbers might be 7 + (dungeon level/2). Having said that, it is easy enough to just make the numbers up on the spot. I usually set the difficulty to 8 for most stuff in the low dungeon levels (1 to 3), or 10 for something more risky. Targets of 11 or 12 are quite unlikely (see below) for PCs without specialisation, so you probably want to save those for the lower dungeon levels and/or really tough challenges. The maximum target that can be achieved by a PC (without the aid of magic) is 13 -- and that requires a +1 modifier from the appropriate ability score. Achieving anything beyond target 13 requires magical intervention. So reserve your 14+ targets for the ultra rare/tough/nigh on impossible scenarios. If you are interested in math, then understanding the probability of each outcome is your most useful tool for setting targets. Number crunching isn't my forte so it took me most of a day to bludgeon these numbers out of my computer... and believe me, it hurt. | | 2d6 | 3d6 | 4d6 | 5d6 | 6d6 | | p(2+) | 100% | 100% | 100% | 100% | 100% | | p(3+) | 97% | 99% | 99% | 99% | 99% | | p(4+) | 92% | 98% | 99% | 99% | 99% | | p(5+) | 83% | 95% | 98% | 99% | 99% | | p(6+) | 72% | 89% | 96% | 98% | 99% | | p(7+) | 58% | 81% | 91% | 96% | 98% | | p(8+) | 42% | 68% | 83% | 91% | 95% | | p(9+) | 28% | 52% | 69% | 81% | 88% | | p(10+) | 17% | 36% | 52% | 65% | 75% | | p(11+) | 8% | 20% | 32% | 43% | 53% | | p(12+) | 3% | 7% | 13% | 20% | 26% |
As you can see, a few extra d6 dramatically reduce the odds of rolling a low result. I.e., a specialised PC will reliably roll good numbers -- while an unspecialised PC has to get lucky to produce good numbers. It has been suggested by some of my group that if more than two 6s are rolled, then each additional 6 should add +1 to the overall result. While this makes it possible to achieve results over 12, it also leads to "inflation" of a kind. I'm inclined not to bother with it for now, but that's just me. |
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Post by machfront on Mar 23, 2009 2:41:27 GMT -6
waysoftheearth, Thanks so much for the extra info. Very helpful. Number crunching isn't my best friend either, so I can appreciate how mind-numbing making the table must have been. So, it would seem to me the most common 'target number' spread would be in the 6 to 9 range, with very routine or simple things getting 5 or 4 (if rolling the die at all) and more than rather difficult tests needing a 10 to 12. Great! I think I've a handle on it. I've been thinking about another very simple and general skill system proposed a while ago on DF my simrion. I like it quite lot but this one has a slightly more detailed feel to it without getting bogged down in minutia and it still has an old-school feel... a lil bit quirky, but fast and easy. Thanks again for sharing. ;D |
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Post by gkaralunas on Aug 30, 2009 17:50:20 GMT -6
Yes, exactly. I prefer not to call them "skills" because that might imply that some PCs do or don't have certain skills which isn't true.
I'll mentioned the skills again for reference: The 4 backgrounds are: Court, Faerie, Rural, Urban. The 8 skills are: Academia, Animal, Artifice, Athletics, Craftsmanship, Medicine, Subterfuge, Wilderness.
If I read you correctly the 'Skill' of looking at the South End of a North bound Mule for 10 plus years doesn't qualify -- BTW most of my PCs came from that 'Skill' so Animal Husbandry would not be included (remember the youngest of the family does not get the farm, but has to do a majority of the chores) and these young kids (avg 18) really don't know which end is what when it comes to a sword (can we say 'On-The-Job-Training).
BTW all that fluff you hear about 3 meals a day on the farm is BS, you got up with the Sun feed the Animals & then had your morning meal. At about Sunset you got your Evening Meal. Why should any want to leave such a safe place to go and fight ORCs or other evil creatures<grin>
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Post by irdaranger on Sept 17, 2009 12:51:17 GMT -6
Interesting. I have toyed with skill systems that become more reliable (rather than more 'awesome') with increasing specialization, but there was a drawback IMO. There are things that a journeyman or master can do that less trained individuals simply cannot even attempt. I (in real life) would have 0% chance of successfully forging a sword. Luck would not get it done.
You might consider that increasing specialty pips "unlock" certain abilities, e.g, you need three dice in Smithing before you can even try to make plate armor.
Another thing I have a problem with is linking increasing skill to leveling up. Why? Besides the fact that a clean, no-options class system is one of D&D's great strengths, how does it make sense that fightin' orcs makes you better smith? Skill systems I have used in the past could only be improved with money and training time, not XP.
Right now I only allow Secondary Skills, a la Castles & Crusades.
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What are the 'mechanics' of your skill system? How are points/ranks/whatever you use assigned, etc.? How are skill checks preformed? Things like that...
