Goldenrod Chainmail

[Finarvyn]

I saw a goldenrod copy of Chainmail (Guildion Games; pre-TSR edition either 1E or 2E) sell on e-bay last week for about $500.

I like finding early editions of games so that I can see what they were like "back in the day", but Chainmail is odd in that as far as I can tell the main rules are pretty much unchanged from edition to edition. The big changes seem to be in the "Fantasy Supplement" portion of the rules, and what has happened is that new spells were added with each printing.

This would actually make my 3E (silver TSR print) version of Chainmail seem more valuable since it is more complete, but clearly the market does not agree on this assesment.

Having said all of that, I would still love to get a hold of a goldenrod copy of Chainmail. Just not $500 worth.

So ... has anyone actually played using the 1E or 2E Chainmail rules, and can you tell us if there are any other changes other than those done to the "Fantasy Supplement"?

[grodog]

Finarvyn---

Paul Stormberg has done a lot of textual analysis of the Chainmail editions, and shared the info over on the Acaeum at www.acaeum.com/forum/viewtopic.php?t=4707 and www.acaeum.com/forum/viewtopic.php?t=4964

These are discussions about the printing editions, but Paul's definitely the man to go to for info about the rules variations across editions, too. I'll poke him to see if he can pop in and comment.

[Finarvyn]

Wow. Another goldenrod Chainmail sells for $380.

(Oh, and thanks for the links, grodog!)

[thorswulf]

I noticed a funny thing in the Guidon Games first edition in the fantasy section. The section for Giants is missing in the text, but they are listed on the charts! Oops! I got to peruse a copy from John McEwan. I haven't tried the rules myself, but I finally have enough miniatures to try a small 1:20 scale battle between Vikings and Normans, or a real big skirmish! For what it is worth the 3rd edition is the most playable version, as it has more cohesion overall, and all the man to man skirmish rules are in place.

[grodog]

A very nice 2nd printing, goldenrod Chainmail sold @ GenCon for somewhere between $500 and $750 (I just don't recall offhand).

And, you're quite welcome Finarvyn

[oldgeezer]

GAH!!!!!

I have a 2nd Edition Gold Cover CHAINMAIL too!

Crom and Mitra Almighty!!!

[badger2305]

oldgeezer said:

GAH!!!!!

I have a 2nd Edition Gold Cover CHAINMAIL too!

Crom and Mitra Almighty!!!

I told you to hang onto your stuff, Michael.

[Finarvyn]

oldgeezer said:

I have a 2nd Edition Gold Cover CHAINMAIL too!

If you ever decide to Xerox or PDF a copy of this (to archive just in case of nuclear holocaust) I volunteer to store a copy for you just in case.

I'd love to get my hands on a goldenrod copy just to see how it has changed. (My guess is "not much" but who knows....)

[Falconer]

I also volunteer to test the fidelity of your personal PDF archive.

[Finarvyn]

I saw another goldenrod Chainmail on e-bay the other day. Already up over $300, if memory serves me correctly.

This ticks me off because clearly it's inferior to the newer editions (doesn't have all of the spells but otherwise is supposed to be nearly identical) but is a collectable because it's older.

[Deleted]

Oh, I'd love to have one of those but who has 300 dollars lying around.

So the newer (third) editions are actually better?

[Finarvyn]

dilvish said:

So the newer (third) editions are actually better?

That's my understanding, yes. Of course, I've never actually read one but am basing this assessment on comments I've read online over the past few years.

This seems to be one of the few cases where the newer version is clearly superior to the older version, because it's more complete. Usually, newer editions add fluff or try to totally overhaul the game system or something where some like it better and others don't. In the case of Chainmail, it appears that the game is really unchanged but some spells were added to make the game more OD&D-like.

And it's not like they went from a few spells to hundreds, which would clearly have changed the "feel" of the game. The evolution was such that they went from a couple to a dozen or so, and the number stayed playable.

Maybe Thorswulf or Oldgeezer or someone else who has a copy can shed more light on this.

[thorswulf]

Wow, there is quite a bit different, but in a nutshell the 3rd edition has more rules for weather, terrain set up, different national characteristics (Samurai, etc...), clearer definition of the morale process, a few more illustrations, a definative man to man section that works very nice, some alterations to racial descriptions as well as an addition (giants), more spells, and a more complex casting system, and a little more meat to the magic weapons section. I think that covers most of it. The charts in the rear are very clear, and well presented.

I have an ancient copy of Wargamer's Digest that actually reviewed Chainmail, the TSR printing, not the Guidon Games edition. What is particularly funny about the review is that it states, "..these rules have been around for quite a while..." Mind you this is circa 1976 or so (I think). Most good rules get revamped to make them more fluid, and easier to understand. Chainmail is no exception considering it started out life as a series of articles in a wargaming club magazine and has evolved over time into what it is in its third edition.

I think volume 3, number 12 of Wargamer's Digest actually has an article by Dave Arneson on the breakdown of armies for different nations from the Fall of Rome to the Hundred years war. It is a simple 3 page article, but one of the most useful for Chainmail.

[Zenopus]

Thorswulf (or anyone else): does the 1st edition Chainmail have the counter-spell rules for Wizards in the Fantasy Supplement? In the third edition these rules are on page 31 in the section titled "Spells", just before the spell list.

[oldkat]

Feb 10, 2008 9:02:11 GMT -6 Finarvyn said:

I saw another goldenrod Chainmail on e-bay the other day. Already up over $300, if memory serves me correctly.

This ticks me off because clearly it's inferior to the newer editions (doesn't have all of the spells but otherwise is supposed to be nearly identical) but is a collectable because it's older.

I don't think age is the sole determiner of what is defined as a collectible.
Rarity--the # known to actually exist, plays a big factor.
If there were 3000000 paintings of Mona Lisa floating around, I doubt it'd be considered quite the same.

[Deleted]

I had to sell my 2nd Edition CHAINMAIL, the one I actually used in Don Kaye's garage, back in 2009 to survive and it still bothers me. A lot.

The best edition of CHAINMAIL for playing is 3rd edition, spiral binding, 1st through 5th printing; it still includes Balrogs, Hobbits, and Ents, but has all the other rules changes.

I got one for $40.

[increment]

Jan 20, 2016 0:19:11 GMT -6 Zenopus said:

Thorswulf (or anyone else): does the 1st edition Chainmail have the counter-spell rules for Wizards in the Fantasy Supplement? In the third edition these rules are on page 31 in the section titled "Spells", just before the spell list.

Yes. It is slightly different in 1st ed: a weaker magician needs a 9, 10, or 11 to prevail rather than 8, 9, 10, or 11 (in part because "relative strengths" were better articulated by 2nd ed CM). The notice that counterspelling requires all of a wizard's attention also doesn't appear in 1st ed.

[Zenopus]

Thanks, Jon! Good to know this concept goes all the way back to the "beginning".