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Post by stonetoflesh on May 14, 2009 11:03:48 GMT -6
I'm relatively new to Traveller, it's only been in the past couple years that I've played CT and then the Mongoose version. I'll be refereeing my first Trav campaign soon, so I've been developing a subsector sandbox and checking out the Traveller online community a bit. I've noted some differences between the Trav and old-school D&D communities, and I wonder if anyone else around here has made similar observations... There's plenty of cool creative stuff happening in places like Citizens of the Imperium and the Mong Trav boards in terms of designing planets, starships, alien races, tech, NPCs, and so on. However, there doesn't seem to be as much meta-game discussion beyond arguing the relative merits of various rulesets. I'm not expecting to see much chatter about playstyle philosophies, but I would think that sandbox design would be a major and recurring topic of discussion. There also seems to be less publishing activity in the Traveller community. I've seen a couple new ezines advertised, but there don't seem to be as many hobbyist-generated publishers (comparable to Mythmere Games, Goblinoid, Brave Halfling, et al) or prolific bloogers in the old-school Traveller community. I'm not trying to rant here or slag on the hard-core Traveller fans, it's just my observations. I hope they can all be proven false - any enlightenment would be well-appreciated!  |
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Deleted
Deleted Member
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Post by Deleted on May 14, 2009 11:27:01 GMT -6
I think since Traveller is an actively produced and supported RPG, there is less fan generated material for it. Probably because a commercially produced game will have its copyright defended more aggressively, though I'm only guessing here.
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Post by Finarvyn on May 14, 2009 19:05:22 GMT -6
It is interesting that the Traveller posters seem to put so much energy into an edition debate, becasue frankly most of the editions seem pretty much the same to me. :-)
Of course, they probably say that about pre-3E D&D as well....
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kenhr
Level 2 Seer
Posts: 35
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Post by kenhr on May 15, 2009 8:44:19 GMT -6
The hardcore Traveller fans are wedded to the Third Imperium setting and rely on canon too much for my tastes. I've only run the game in my own settings; these don't tend to attract too much interest as they're in no way, shape or form "Traveller canon." I've toyed with the idea of doing a writeup of my setting and releasing it, but I'm afraid it'd sink without a trace because it's not 3I, regardless of any merit it might have (and I'm not saying my setting has any merit!).
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Post by makofan on May 15, 2009 8:46:24 GMT -6
I have never run the canon universe - making your own subsector and ships and stuff is just too much fun!
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Post by coffee on May 15, 2009 9:06:57 GMT -6
I'd like to see what you come up with, Kenhr.
One of the reasons the 3I is so large is that people do have fun making their own sectors -- but then they kick-fit them into the 3I.
I've never really liked the 3I because of the perceived need to use the additional books, from Mercenary on up. I like just the first three, and I think I could have a great deal of fun with just them. But try telling a guy with his seven-term mercenary stat-monster that he has to go through basic character generation and he tends to howl (at least in my experience).
I did rather enjoy 4th edition, but it needed way too much editing and never sat right with my group. If I do go back to running Traveller at all, it'll be the old set (probably The Traveller Book, the best single version of the original game) and hang the additional rules.
And it'll be my own universe, to boot.
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kenhr
Level 2 Seer
Posts: 35
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Post by kenhr on May 15, 2009 9:12:06 GMT -6
I have never run the canon universe - making your own subsector and ships and stuff is just too much fun! Complete agreement here! But look at the Mongoose Traveller threads at CotI; the die-hards don't separate rules from setting at all, and claim anything not 3I is not Traveller (even if Loren Wiseman has again and again said in editorials that the original game was meant to be a generic toolkit). An original setting would likely be ignored because it's not the Third Imperium. If you do something set in the Third Imperium, you've got to deal with canon.... This attitude, btw, is one I've really only found online. Anyone I've actually played with has been cool with how I roll. |
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kenhr
Level 2 Seer
Posts: 35
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Post by kenhr on May 15, 2009 9:16:01 GMT -6
I'd like to see what you come up with, Kenhr. One of the reasons the 3I is so large is that people do have fun making their own sectors -- but then they kick-fit them into the 3I. I've never really liked the 3I because of the perceived need to use the additional books, from Mercenary on up. I like just the first three, and I think I could have a great deal of fun with just them. But try telling a guy with his seven-term mercenary stat-monster that he has to go through basic character generation and he tends to howl (at least in my experience). I did rather enjoy 4th edition, but it needed way too much editing and never sat right with my group. If I do go back to running Traveller at all, it'll be the old set (probably The Traveller Book, the best single version of the original game) and hang the additional rules. And it'll be my own universe, to boot. I'll post a link to my new campaign wiki when I've got it in a presentable form. I pick and choose what I use outside the original three books: weapons from Mercenary, some ideas from High Guard (but not the shipbuilding or space combat rules), etc. Mongoose Trav actually has some good additions that I've taken up for my games. And I house rule the heck out of everything, old school style. I actually have a "custom" LBB set (that I can't distribute because it copies and pastes a lot of the original books, sorry) that incorporates my house rules and the stuff I've pinched from supplements, other versions of the game, other games and message boards. |
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Post by Finarvyn on May 15, 2009 13:53:50 GMT -6
the original game was meant to be a generic toolkit... This, to me, is one of the biggest changes that has occured in RPG philosophy in the past 30 years. OD&D was a toolkit. T&T was a toolkit. Traveller was a toolkit. All of the original games seemed to start out this way, and the intent at the time was that you were supposed to go out and make up your own world for the players to experience. Older companies like Judges' Guild followed this philosophy by putting out generic adventures for any campaign setting. AD&D changed things somewhat, with Gary's "standardize the rules for tournament play" notion. Somewhere along the line there became "official" rules that you had to follow for some reason. Then you have EPT, MERP, James Bond, Star Trek, Star Wars, and so on. These were setting games. GURPS really launched a lot of this with a single generic system and dozens of setting books. Suddenly there seemed to be this perception that you had to have "official" rules before you can play something. So now games are setting first and rules second, with a core rule book and wave after wave of add-on splatbooks to enrich the game. We get overloaded with rules in a hurry as rulebooks become thicker and slicker, no longer guides but instead encyclopedias. Ranting in a Traveller thread is probably pointless because (1) it's not Traveller's fault specifically, and (2) probably few posters will actually read it. I just get so frustrated with current games sometimes.  |
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Post by coffee on May 15, 2009 14:46:07 GMT -6
I hear ya!
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Post by stonetoflesh on May 15, 2009 16:24:33 GMT -6
But look at the Mongoose Traveller threads at CotI; the die-hards don't separate rules from setting at all, and claim anything not 3I is not Traveller (even if Loren Wiseman has again and again said in editorials that the original game was meant to be a generic toolkit). This kind of experience at CotI was largely responsible for my original post. The indifference to homebrewed, original setting material is incredible in a head-shaking sort of way. I can understand the allegiance to a particular setting, but at the same time I would think that at the very least those old-timers who've been playing since '77 would be a little more appreciative of homebrewed settings -- after all, they must have been doing at least a bit of that before the 3I material started flowing, right? |
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Thorulfr
Level 5 Thaumaturgist
Posts: 264
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Post by Thorulfr on May 20, 2009 19:30:24 GMT -6
I'm relatively new to Traveller, <...> There's plenty of cool creative stuff happening in places like Citizens of the Imperium and the Mong Trav boards in terms of designing planets, starships, alien races, tech, NPCs, and so on. However, there doesn't seem to be as much meta-game discussion beyond arguing the relative merits of various rulesets. Have you checked out the Traveller Mailing List (TML), the grand-daddy of them all? The signal-to-noise ratio tends to be on the low side at times, but you can expect postings on about any conceivable subject, from painfully nit-picking analysis of obscure facets of the OTU, to wild, follow-that-chain-of-logic discussions about people's own Traveller universes. lists.travellercentral.com/mailman/listinfo/tml(Just don't expect a warm reception if your first post is about Aslan in comfortable shoes piloting fighters to defend against ethically-challenged merchants using near-light-speed rocks to attack feudal technocracys*.  *all of which are subjects that have been done to death, but still manage to spark flamewars whenever a critical mass of new members is reached.) |
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kenhr
Level 2 Seer
Posts: 35
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Post by kenhr on May 21, 2009 11:32:31 GMT -6
Mention Jump Torpedoes on TML and you'll get along fine.  |
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Post by stonetoflesh on May 23, 2009 22:41:32 GMT -6
I'll check out the TML list, thanks!
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Thorulfr
Level 5 Thaumaturgist
Posts: 264
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Post by Thorulfr on May 24, 2009 23:00:19 GMT -6
See you on the list...
(good timing for joining - there is a barbecue planned for next month in San Lorenzo. Way too far for me to drive, but it looks like it might be in your neck of the woods.
Oh, and in case you couldn't tell, kenhr was pulling your leg...jump torpedoes is one of those 'no go' topics.)
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kenhr
Level 2 Seer
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Post by kenhr on May 29, 2009 9:38:30 GMT -6
I was, indeed, just funnin'. Shoulda been more clear. |
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Post by jcstephens on May 29, 2009 12:54:26 GMT -6
"Aslan in comfortable shoes"? I'm familiar with the other controversies, but that one escapes me. What's the deal?
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Thorulfr
Level 5 Thaumaturgist
Posts: 264
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Post by Thorulfr on Jun 22, 2009 11:13:00 GMT -6
"Aslan in comfortable shoes"? I'm familiar with the other controversies, but that one escapes me. What's the deal? To be perfectly honest, I am not familiar with the specific details of the arguments and counter-arguments, since it has been so long since this particular subject has been flamed, it has almost become shorthand for "subjects that are going to cause arguments"..a kind of humorous, meta-syntactical reference for "don't talk about this." The basic idea is whether certain traits and practices in Aslan culture and their style of warfare might lead to a heightened proportion of females who ...how should I put this delicately?... choose to select life partners from among those of their own gender. |
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oldgamergeek
Level 3 Conjurer
I R the dungeon kitty ,save vs catnap
Posts: 71
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Post by oldgamergeek on Sept 12, 2009 8:24:01 GMT -6
Time for the old geek to speak up, I have been playing Traveller since there has been Traveller and I have yet to meet anyone in real life who uses the 3rd Imperium as a whole. They all take bits and pieces and make their own setting. Myself I use what I want to and forget the rest right now my players are chasing great Cthulhu across space.
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wolf90
Level 1 Medium
Posts: 18
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Post by wolf90 on Jun 3, 2010 20:10:03 GMT -6
I think we might be starting to see a breakaway from the '3I is the only I' mentality. Certainly the Mongoose Traveller with the Hammer's Slammers, Judge Dredd, Babylon 5 and now Twilight Sector settings all are not 3I, but are 'official'...
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wolf90
Level 1 Medium
Posts: 18
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Post by wolf90 on Jun 7, 2010 22:24:31 GMT -6
I agree with oldgamergeek. All Traveller players I know for the last 35 yrs pick what they want out of the canon
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eris
Level 4 Theurgist
Posts: 161
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Post by eris on Jun 11, 2010 14:28:04 GMT -6
"Aslan in comfortable shoes"? I'm familiar with the other controversies, but that one escapes me. What's the deal? The reference is to lesbian Aslan, and the controversy is more that it is a subject that has been "beaten to death on the lists" (like near-lightspeed rocks, the workability of "unethical merchants"...ie. pirates in the Imperium, and Virus, with a capital V) and as such is not discussed much. |
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