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Post by jimlotfp on Jan 28, 2009 5:49:13 GMT -6
Aside from psionic monsters and multiple attacks/variable damages, is there any way that the Monster Manual isn't ready-to-go with OD&D (or at least OD&D and Holmes)?
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Post by dwayanu on Jan 28, 2009 6:30:14 GMT -6
Considering that all the Treasure Types (including new ones) are defined therein, I don't think so. Some armor types are mentioned that were not defined until the PHB, but it was not until then that inconsistencies in stats became really evident. All the references to spell-casting ability are (IIRC) in line with OD&D rather than AD&D.
The only things of which I can think offhand are speculations that there might be scattered references to spells, magic items, class features and so on not in the OD&D books or even in TSR / Dragon.
Oh, yeah: Alignment is subtly different even from the expanded (with a second axis) magazine treatment.
I'd say there's no big deal, but then I ran Dark Tower without the PHB!
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Post by kenmeister on Jan 28, 2009 13:01:50 GMT -6
I'd say there's no big deal, but then I ran Dark Tower without the PHB! You've actually run Dark Tower? My jealousy knows no bounds. |
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Post by simrion on Mar 22, 2009 7:31:17 GMT -6
I'd say there's no big deal, but then I ran Dark Tower without the PHB! You've actually run Dark Tower? My jealousy knows no bounds. Me too! Jealous that is...I tried Dark Tower on a Group but it was just too random and illogical for the Groups tastes...sigh  |
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Post by Zulgyan on Mar 22, 2009 9:51:49 GMT -6
I use the MMI manual a LOT in my OD&D games. You just roll for 1d6 for hit dice instead of 1d8, and you tone down the damage, many times completely ignoring it and just going with 1d6.
The MMI has too many good beasties not in OD&D!
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blackmoor
Level 4 Theurgist
The First Dungeonmaster
Posts: 115
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Post by blackmoor on Mar 22, 2009 13:16:45 GMT -6
As I have said many times before. Work with what works for you. But be very aware that this adds complications and draw you and your players away from the real treasure, THE STORY. Always remember too that the PLAYER WOULD actually not know the monster stats etc. The have to learn them the hard way Maybe you pack train is loaded down with hundreds of obscure scrolls and tomes. Mine weren't.
"Roll the dice and I will tell you you hit!"
Dave Arneson
"The First Referee"
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edsan
Level 5 Thaumaturgist
MUTANT LORD
Posts: 309
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Post by edsan on Mar 22, 2009 16:49:30 GMT -6
I'd say there's no big deal, but then I ran Dark Tower without the PHB! Pray tell, what is the "Dark Tower" exactly? A Module? |
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Post by jimlotfp on Mar 23, 2009 7:22:42 GMT -6
But be very aware that this adds complications and draw you and your players away from the real treasure, THE STORY. "Story" has become a loaded term in the RPG community. What exactly do you mean by 'story' and how would using the MM as opposed to just what's in the OD&D books take away from it? Always remember too that the PLAYER WOULD actually not know the monster stats etc. The have to learn them the hard way Why? I understand if the players are all new, to give them that fresh, mysterious feel... but isn't this a bit insulting to people who have been playing 10, 15, 25 years? And unfair in a mixed group of veteran and rookie players if one half is slyly using knowledge (especially if following the 'challenge the player, not the character stats' style of gaming) and thus being more effective than the newbies who are left in the dark? Doesn't that also make no sense "in the game," if we go by the level titles and consider Fighting Men "veterans" and not fresh off the farm? Wouldn't they have a decent grasp of how tough and capable an enemy is once they engage? |
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Post by kenmeister on Apr 5, 2009 11:33:10 GMT -6
I'd say there's no big deal, but then I ran Dark Tower without the PHB! Pray tell, what is the "Dark Tower" exactly? A Module? Pretty much the flagship Judges Guild module, in fact. Read all about it here: www.acaeum.com/jg/Item0088.html. The 'too illogical and random' comment is the first time I've ever heard someone say something bad about it. The mystique around this adventure is otherwise incredible. Paul wrote it for OD&D, but Judges Guild quickly translated it to AD&D since that had just come out.  |
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Post by aldarron on Apr 9, 2009 17:30:58 GMT -6
But be very aware that this adds complications and draw you and your players away from the real treasure, THE STORY. "Story" has become a loaded term in the RPG community. What exactly do you mean by 'story' and how would using the MM as opposed to just what's in the OD&D books take away from it? Always remember too that the PLAYER WOULD actually not know the monster stats etc. The have to learn them the hard way Why? I understand if the players are all new, to give them that fresh, mysterious feel... but isn't this a bit insulting to people who have been playing 10, 15, 25 years? And unfair in a mixed group of veteran and rookie players if one half is slyly using knowledge (especially if following the 'challenge the player, not the character stats' style of gaming) and thus being more effective than the newbies who are left in the dark? Doesn't that also make no sense "in the game," if we go by the level titles and consider Fighting Men "veterans" and not fresh off the farm? Wouldn't they have a decent grasp of how tough and capable an enemy is once they engage? It seems now you will never get a direct answer to your question. However, I've read enough of Mr. Arnesons quotes and the AIF stuff to presume to know what he meant. Realize that he did not speak in Gygaxian or Wotc terminology but rather in his own game terminology. He often used the term PLAYER - particularly when capitalized - to mean the character, and that is clearly what he meant here when he referred to a mule pack train of tomes accompanying them. Not the people who have been playing for 20 years, but the in game fighters and thieves and wizards in the game who would not know monster statistics. As to the STORY, however it may be a "loaded term" in some circles is irrelevant, because Mr. Arneson would have certainly meant the standard meaning. The story is the story, the narrative, the unfolding of events between the protagonists and their foils, that develops as the game develops. The message he was giving here was simple enough - don't let rules and game mechanics interfere with the storytelling of a great gaming session. The rules, as he saw them, were a way to facillitate a shared story between friends. |
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