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Post by blackbarn on Aug 24, 2008 2:44:19 GMT -6
Thanks for the reply, and yes I plan on getting a printed copy. I'll wait a bit and see how it goes.
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Post by thegreyelf on Aug 25, 2008 6:22:47 GMT -6
I don't anticipate it being much longer. I'm nearly done with the new art and the layout repairs. I just need to work on the new cover, which will require scanning.
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Post by greyharp on Aug 25, 2008 15:46:24 GMT -6
I may (and probably will) put the PDF up for free for a few days after I finish it, to make up for those who have already bought it. That would be great thegreyelf and much appreciated.  |
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Post by thegreyelf on Aug 27, 2008 6:25:16 GMT -6
Okay, the final revision is done (assuming I didn't miss any formatting errors, and I sincerely hope I didn't). I'll leave the PDF up for free until Monday. If anyone downloads it and finds any formatting issues, please let me know so I can fix them a.s.a.p.
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Post by greyharp on Aug 27, 2008 9:05:58 GMT -6
Jason, it appears the front cover is missing. The rear cover is there in the pdf and a blank sheet at the back, but no front cover.
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Post by thegreyelf on Aug 27, 2008 9:49:39 GMT -6
sigh. f**king Lulu. Be nice if they could actually get their service right. I'll see what I can do about that. Until then, here's a PDF of the front cover: www.grey-elf.com/dnd/SnSfrontcover.pdf |
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Post by thegreyelf on Aug 27, 2008 9:53:24 GMT -6
Okay, should (theoretically) be fixed.
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Post by Wothbora on Aug 27, 2008 11:57:30 GMT -6
I purchased my copy on August 25th (PDF) on Lulu.com... Do I have the revised version (it has a "2" at the end of the file name)?
All I can say is "Wow"!!! I really like the interpretation of the old rules and the blending with some of the newer ideas that have (in more recent times) developed in gaming. Your 2d6 Combat approach is nice, very nice -- As is your spin on Magic and Spell Casting (definitely makes things interesting). I'll probably tweak your Ability Checks with a 3d6 vs. Ability, but will definitely give your method a shot to see how it works.
I'm still sifting through the Book 3: Monsters & Magic, but am super impressed with Books 1 & 2. I definitely think you've produced a very good product that hits the spot for those seeking a Proto-D&D experience. Excellent and I would recommend it to anyone who's looking to play with an "older than OD&D" feel!!!
Thanks!
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Post by thegreyelf on Aug 27, 2008 12:49:15 GMT -6
No, the final version was just posted this morning and is available for free until Monday (so those who already bought it can "upgrade" at no cost). I'm glad you like it! I went against the 3d6 vs. Ability idea because I've quite frankly always hated roll-under (though for some reason the %-based thief skills don't bug me; go figure). In general I prefer higher=better. Indeed, in a future supplement (provided one is merited) I may include an optional rule for doing away with % dice altogether, converting them to bonuses on 2d6 vs. the base 12 TN. If anyone would care to do a review of the final version over at RPG.Net, I'd be very appreciative. I've also opened a discussion forum for the game and my fledgling company: elflairgames.proboards107.com/ |
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Post by carjack on Aug 27, 2008 13:33:23 GMT -6
I like the layout changes you've made. Now I'm going to have to reprint it again! Thanks for the free upgrade!
Larry Elmore, though? Well, I can forgive small things like that...The Manticore illustration is just priceless, though!
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Post by thegreyelf on Aug 27, 2008 13:42:46 GMT -6
Hey, don't talk smack on Elmore. The man is a fantastic artist and an all-around good guy.
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Post by carjack on Aug 27, 2008 13:51:26 GMT -6
Hey, don't talk smack on Elmore. The man is a fantastic artist and an all-around good guy. Sorry! I don't dislike him as a person or his art as such, but I guess I do have some bad associations with his art because of the products it was published in, if that makes sense? |
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Post by apeloverage on Aug 27, 2008 15:19:15 GMT -6
If anyone downloads it and finds any formatting issues, please let me know so I can fix them a.s.a.p. 'Ability Table 1: Check Modifiers' doesn't have a result for 8. I think '9-10' is meant to be '8-10'. 'Ability Score Table 6: Charisma' has the same problem. Larry Elmore's site is www.larryelmore.com , not www.elmore.comNot a mistake, but halflings have the lowest morale...shouldn't they have the highest? Their unexpected courage is one of the main plot elements in LOTR. |
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Post by thegreyelf on Aug 27, 2008 20:42:32 GMT -6
Yes, it should be 8-10. Good catch. Thanks. Would you believe it's even been proofed and that still got past?
When making an ability check or 2d6 roll, rolling high is almost always better in S&S. Halflings need to roll 6 or above. They're far and away the bravest of the races.
Also, so I'm not just continually posting new revisions, I'm starting an Errata/FAQ thread over at the Elf Lair forums. When I have a comprehensive list, I'll create an errata document which'll go up for free download.
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Post by longcoat000 on Aug 28, 2008 15:57:47 GMT -6
Hey, don't talk smack on Elmore. The man is a fantastic artist and an all-around good guy. Sorry! I don't dislike him as a person or his art as such, but I guess I do have some bad associations with his art because of the products it was published in, if that makes sense? I'll always have a soft spot for Elmore because of his prominently-featured art in BECMI D&D. That, and the man can blend colors like nobody's business... Not to derail the thread, but what was hit stuff in that you don't like? |
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Post by apeloverage on Aug 29, 2008 2:57:19 GMT -6
When making an ability check or 2d6 roll, rolling high is almost always better in S&S. Halflings need to roll 6 or above. They're far and away the bravest of the races. Oh OK - I misread it. |
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Post by thegreyelf on Aug 30, 2008 10:29:47 GMT -6
No worries. A few errata have been caught in the monster section arising from my use of OGC. I'll have them posted as soon as I have a comprehensive list. Once I'm sure we've caught all the errata I'll put up a free PDF on Lulu of it, and offer a saddle-stitched print version at no profit (though there will be Lulu's base cost associated) for those who want it. Again, as we're collecting it, the errata is being posted at the forums for the game over at elflairgames.proboards107.comI'd love to see some discussion get going over there, and also I'd appreciate it if any of you who enjoy the game will put out a word of mouth about it. |
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Post by drskull on Sept 1, 2008 17:23:17 GMT -6
I'm interest in why you went with exceptional strength, and indeed with any large bonus to hit due to strength. I mean, with a 2d6 range, a high strength guy is like, never going to miss.
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Post by thegreyelf on Sept 2, 2008 6:25:45 GMT -6
Even with an 18/00 Strength, you still only get +6, which still leaves open a possibility of failure on decent armors.
Plus, warriors are the ONLY characters who gain the benefit of exceptional strength, and they SHOULD be combat monsters. At last! The Warrior doesn't get outclassed by the mage at higher levels.
Second, it's going to be exceedingly rare to see an 18/00 strength (1 in 100 warriors who have 18). Remember, no matter what method of stat generation you're using, "only fighters (sic; have to errata that to "Warriors") can roll for exceptional strength if their score reaches 18."
Finally, given that this game was designed to emulate OD&D with Chainmail as the combat system...exceptional strength was part of OD&D.
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Post by drskull on Sept 2, 2008 14:46:05 GMT -6
One other thing, in my copy I can't find where it says that hit die are 1d6. They are 1d6 aren't they? I just assumed they were.
Along with that, why do some races and/or monsters have different "average hit points" while having the same hit die?
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Post by thegreyelf on Sept 3, 2008 6:41:01 GMT -6
One other thing, in my copy I can't find where it says that hit die are 1d6. They are 1d6 aren't they? I just assumed they were. That's a really good catch. I believe you're right and while that's implied (since pretty much everything is done with d6's), it's certainly not clear. One for the errata. Because, if you'll look in the section on creating monsters, it states that many of the monsters therein have been tweaked, and recommends Referees do the same. It isn't, and shouldn't ever be, just a purely numbers game. Take into account whether the creature might have a Con bonus to hit points. Hit dice deal with more than just hit points; they also determine a creature's combat abilities. Some creatures have a higher threshold for sustaining damage, but a lower combat ability, or vice-versa. Hence, their average hit points as a species may be higher or lower than the straight average on the dice. Also, I'd really like to see these discussions over at The Elf Lair Games message boards. I'm feeling like kind of an interloper discussing a non-OD&D game here. |
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Post by thegreyelf on Sept 12, 2008 12:05:12 GMT -6
Just to let you all know, the errata PDF (free, of course) has been posted at the lulu store.
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Post by thegreyelf on Oct 1, 2008 8:08:44 GMT -6
Hey, just wanted to let you all know I'm currently in development of the first sourcebook for S&S; more information can be had over at my board.
Also, the revised version of the core book is up, which has errata included.
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Post by blackbarn on Oct 1, 2008 16:34:22 GMT -6
Sounds good. For what it's worth, I'm most interested in seeing the optional rules mentioned in that thread.
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Post by thegreyelf on Oct 29, 2008 12:01:28 GMT -6
Incidentally, over at Grognardia there is a new review of S&S, in which the reviewer rates it 4.5 out of 5 polearms! W00t!
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