The Original Battlestar Galactica

[mouser]

I read this article recently:

robert-b-marks.medium.com/ahead-of-its-time-the-rise-and-fall-of-the-original-battlestar-galactica-ae9bcb669d60

I loved this show. I remember it being closer to my heart than Star Wars (1977) at the time. There was something about that series. It felt like it was targeted right at me, my age group (I was 9 years old in 1980).

In those years, it was common for films to come back to theatres. I remember going to see BSG every time it came to the theatre. I liked the TV show a lot, but going back to the theatre to see the film was something I did with my friends multiple times.

Anyway..where am I going with this?  Oh yes. Multiple times I have considered running an rpg around the series, but it never worked out. The problem was that I was a huge fan, but the gaming groups I was in with in my teens didn't seem to have the same passion for BSG. And, by 1985, at least in my experience, BSG seemed to feel like a long-dead franchise. That said, I did have many of the novels and I continued to re-read them, but by 1985 I think I was even done with that (even though those novels hit a precise note for space opera, IMO).

Did anyone on here ever play in or run a campaign in the original Battlestar Galactica universe? If so, let me know!

[Falconer]

You can read about one here: odd74.proboards.com/thread/15967/why-another-campaign-battlestar-galactica

I’ve thought about it a lot over the years. Big fan of the original series. I imagine most PCs would be Colonial Warriors and Medtechs, zipping around to explore planets and shoot Cylons. Awesome stuff!

[mouser]

Thanks, Falconer. I did look at that thread and I found it very inspiring!

I'm considering a PbP of the original BSG, using Star Frontiers rules. Now, hear me out! I know Traveller is popular on these boards, but I have had more experience with Star Frontiers, and I even ran a short campaign in Star Frontiers recently.

Anyway, more as I think on it. Frankly, I'm excited that this is even a possibility here; I should have signed up years ago. : )

[Falconer]

Hey, that’s cool, I totally get the Traveller love, but my own go-to is Starships & Spacemen, and I’ve also dabbled in commercial Star Trek, Star Wars, and Serenity rulesets. Some people just use OD&D in space!

[rredmond]

Isn't Star Trek: Adventure Gaming in the Final Frontier either based on OD&D or similar? I've definitely heard of S&S, and heard it talked about fondly in our groggy circles. I'll have to take a peek one of these days.

[mouser]

Apr 5, 2024 8:23:27 GMT -6 Falconer said:

Hey, that’s cool, I totally get the Traveller love, but my own go-to is Starships & Spacemen, and I’ve also dabbled in commercial Star Trek, Star Wars, and Serenity rulesets. Some people just use OD&D in space!

 OD&D for Battlestar Galactica.... Genius. I think I have a thread to start.

[Falconer]

Apr 5, 2024 9:37:21 GMT -6 rredmond said:

Isn't Star Trek: Adventure Gaming in the Final Frontier either based on OD&D or similar? I've definitely heard of S&S, and heard it talked about fondly in our groggy circles. I'll have to take a peek one of these days.

Star Trek: Adventure Gaming in the Final Frontier (1978) is an officially licensed Star Trek RPG based on the slightly more generic and slightly more pan-sci-fi Space Patrol (1977). Regardless of whether you’re running a Star Trek game, I suggest taking a look at both and using them in combination. It makes a pretty good but rather lite OD&D-like ruleset. It’s a good start. But it’s missing too much.

- Spaceships and space travel/exploration/combat rules. You kind of need these! Starships & Spacement does a GREAT job at supplying these.

- Character creation - stats, races, classes, skills — and leveling. Again you can adapt these directly from S&S. But if you’re doing Star Trek you should check out Different Worlds #18.

- Lifepath generator - Traveller and FASA Trek began a tradition of the backstory dice minigame. I like the one on the Where No Man Has Gone Before 2.0 website. But that’s for Star Trek. It could be fun to come up with something similar for BG. But not absolutely necessary.

[Finarvyn]

Apr 5, 2024 8:08:08 GMT -6 mouser said:

I'm considering a PbP of the original BSG, using Star Frontiers rules. Now, hear me out! I know Traveller is popular on these boards, but I have had more experience with Star Frontiers, and I even ran a short campaign in Star Frontiers recently.

Ha. You're defending yourself before the first attack.

I think that a Star Frontiers and Battlestar Galactica combo sounds totally cool. I didn't play as much SF as the other systems, but I think it might be a better fit than Traveller anyway. Traveller was always sort of a serious game system, whereas both SF and BSG are a bit more frivolous and whimsical.

[mouser]

Apr 6, 2024 5:11:40 GMT -6 Finarvyn said:

Apr 5, 2024 8:08:08 GMT -6 mouser said:

I'm considering a PbP of the original BSG, using Star Frontiers rules. Now, hear me out! I know Traveller is popular on these boards, but I have had more experience with Star Frontiers, and I even ran a short campaign in Star Frontiers recently.

Ha. You're defending yourself before the first attack.

I think that a Star Frontiers and Battlestar Galactica combo sounds totally cool. I didn't play as much SF as the other systems, but I think it might be a better fit than Traveller anyway. Traveller was always sort of a serious game system, whereas both SF and BSG are a bit more frivolous and whimsical.

I decided to try it based on the OD&D rules. I started a thread: odd74.proboards.com/thread/16323/help-battlestar-galactica-od
My plan is to run a PbP here on these forums if I can ultimately get the go-ahead.
My plan is to use some already-made Star Wars OD&D stuff by thegreyelf: wastedlandsfantasy.blogspot.com/2019/01/star-wars-with-od.html

It will be rules-lite, with "skills" based on your character background. (If he's a Colonial Pilot, he can pilot, shoot a gun, etc.)

I may bring in something like TSR's Dawn Patrol for dogfights.

[Falconer]

Borderline shocking that there hasn’t been any Battlestar Galactica (TOS) tabletop game since 1984.

[Finarvyn]

Apr 6, 2024 12:12:51 GMT -6 mouser said:

My plan is to run a PbP here on these forums if I can ultimately get the go-ahead.

That won't be a problem. Figure out your rules, post something in our PBP classified section, let me know when you have enough players, I set up your space. Easy peasy.

[Punkrabbitt]

Apr 6, 2024 21:02:04 GMT -6 Falconer said:

Borderline shocking that there hasn’t been any Battlestar Galactica (TOS) tabletop game since 1984.

There was one in 1984?

[Falconer]

Yes, by FASA. Not a RPG, unfortunately.

[Piper]

Apr 7, 2024 14:58:46 GMT -6 Punkrabbitt said:

There was one in 1984?

There was one in 1978, fellow gamer. I sold a few of them when they were new. Here is a link to an eBay page (so it may not be valid long).

www.ebay.com/itm/176307917999?itmmeta=01HTXZGM96A4KDRDARAH29ZQY0&hash=item290cc554af:g:5vQAAOSwyFBhVShf

[rredmond]

Apr 6, 2024 12:12:51 GMT -6 mouser said:

I may bring in something like TSR's Dawn Patrol for dogfights.

Wow that'd be something to see. Over on the other PbP forum I play at, they've done BH (weird how much folks want to play it, but nobody likes DMing it ) and GW/MA, but I don't think I've ever seen any Dawn Patrol. Wow (again) that'd be interesting to see!

[Punkrabbitt]

Apr 7, 2024 22:32:31 GMT -6 Piper said:

Apr 7, 2024 14:58:46 GMT -6 Punkrabbitt said:

There was one in 1984?

There was one in 1978, fellow gamer. I sold a few of them when they were new. Here is a link to an eBay page (so it may not be valid long).

www.ebay.com/itm/176307917999?itmmeta=01HTXZGM96A4KDRDARAH29ZQY0&hash=item290cc554af:g:5vQAAOSwyFBhVShf

Thank you. I've never seen that before.

[Parzival]

Ares Game briefly sold a licensed BSG (reboot) game based on the excellent X-wing Miniatures Game from FFG, itself loosely based on Wings of War (now Wings of Glory from Ares). I never picked up the BSG game because it was all the reboot stuff, not the original series. But the mechanics for Wings of Glory are easily reproduced for BSG— all you need are cards marked with potential maneuvers and damage amounts and effect (hits are automatic if the target is in range and firing arc, but damage is a card draw, and might equal 0). However, the X-wing approach is probably better, because it allows for variable speeds and maneuver choices, variable hits based on die rolls, and pilot ratings and special ability cards which can be “purchased” with build points. These allow for more individuality among pilots (in WoG, any Fokker Dr.1 is the same as any other Fokker Dr.1, and the pilot is only a name— the Red Baron is no better or worse than any other German). So with the X-wing system, your character could potentially improve his flying skills or modify his craft— even change the weapons load-out from mission to mission.

Granted, X-Wing ain’t cheap— though now FFG sells a “2nd Edition” which changed the rules. It’s possible that copies of the first edition can be found cheaply (though probably not with the models)— that might net you the cards, cardboard maneuver guides and markers. I believe the rules are actually free from FFG in PDF. There are third party sources for markers, maneuver guides/rulers and ship bases. FFG sells the dice separately, and lots of online retailers have them. The main difficulty is making the “control discs” for your ships— a little dial marked off with the potential maneuver choices for the turn.

[Falconer]

That Ares Battlestar Galactica game was heartbreaking because they actually had the license for the classic as well as the reimagined series. But they dragged and dragged and dragged their feet on the classic fighters until they got their license yanked. I have to think they would have significantly expanded their audience if they had appealed to us TOS fans.

[Parzival]

Didn’t know that. Bummer. I’d have bought the heck out of original Vipers and Raiders.

Of course, the problem with the original BSG is that the show only had two types of fighter craft. Everything else was either transport shuttles or so big you couldn’t do scale. At the scale used for X-wing, the Galactica herself would be bigger than the table! Even the reboot had limited ship possibilities— two breeds of Vipers, the Raptor, the standard Raider and the Heavy Raider.

Compare to Star Wars which even just within the original trilogy has X-wings, Y-wings, A-wings, B-wings, TIE fighters, Advanced TIE fighters, TIE Interceptors, TIE Bombers, Lambda shuttles, YT-1300 fast freighters (the Falcon), Slave-1, along with some smaller capital ships that can fit within a tabletop battle— the Tantive IV and the Rebel transport vessels (seen fleeing Hoth) as examples. Once FFG opened into the EU, the options soared.

BSG is going to be better if the capital ships can come into play as well.

I forgot, by the way, that Star Frontiers already has a starship combat game— Star Frontiers: Knight Hawks. (Given that it’s TSR, I wonder whether Dawn Patrol might not be a basis for it. I’m not familiar enough with either to know. Perhaps KH could be adapted to BSG ships.

[mouser]

Dave Arneson used the Dawn Patrol rules (originally called Battle in the Skies) to craft some air combat rules for D&D...

These are handwritten and typed manuscript pages for Dave Arneson's 18 pages of aerial combat rules sent in 1973 to Gary Gygax for inclusion in Dungeons & Dragons. The aerial combat system was called Battle in the Skies (BITS), which was a play on the WWI aerial combat rules by Mike Carr called Fight in the Skies (FITS). Arneson, Gygax, and Carr would later collaborate on Don't Give Up the Ship (DGUTS), rules for classic non-fantasy naval battles.

Link: https://www.reddit.com/r/odnd/comments/c1w241/bits_aerial_combat_rules_for_dd_dave_arneson_1973/

[tdenmark]

Apr 22, 2024 6:23:38 GMT -6 mouser said:

Link: https://www.reddit.com/r/odnd/comments/c1w241/bits_aerial_combat_rules_for_dd_dave_arneson_1973/

Note the staggered grid. They used those a lot back in the early 70's wargaming, but that type of grid has fallen out of favor. Do you see any games using this now days?

I did a playtest with a staggered grid at home once, and it worked great. It is a lot like using hexes with some of the advantages of a square grid.

I wrote a little blogpost about it here: dungeoneering.blogspot.com/2020/06/the-lost-art-of-staggered-squares.html

[mouser]

Apr 22, 2024 8:08:23 GMT -6 tdenmark said:

Apr 22, 2024 6:23:38 GMT -6 mouser said:

Note the staggered grid. They used those a lot back in the early 70's wargaming, but that type of grid has fallen out of favor. Do you see any games using this now days?

I did a playtest with a staggered grid at home once, and it worked great. It is a lot like using hexes with some of the advantages of a square grid.

I wrote a little blogpost about it here: dungeoneering.blogspot.com/2020/06/the-lost-art-of-staggered-squares.html

You are right. For my Battlestar game I have been working on a stripped-down version of Dawn Patrol and throwing in Arneson's ideas. The staggered grid is great for this. I found the staggered grid you made for your blog post and I combined it with a close-up of Arneson's sketch.

The viper/raider dogfights will be based on this type of grid. It's coming along nicely.



EDIT: Added bonus

[mouser]

PS: Something I find fascinating about the staggered grid is that it's slightly different depending on which way you're facing.






If you look at the viper on the last post, it has one block in front of its nose. This one has two. 

The way I have the combat playing out, this difference doesn't really have an effect. It's just interesting. And I am rather fancying this over a hex map for this.

[Parzival]

I use a staggered grid for a tea-and-cashews (I don’t do beer or pretzels these days) tabletop AWI game I call Redcoast & Minutemen. It’s quite by accident, as the idea came from a set of folding table shields (don’t know what to call ‘em— you put them under tablecloths and they protect the table surface from heavy dishes and spills— I guess). Anyway, mine are dark green and consist of two divided into three sections and one small one divided in half. I put them on my table green felt side up, divided the half one into fourths, and used that as my battlefield sections, labeling them “zones.” The zones define movement and range, but more abstractly than a true grid (as multiple units can be in a single zone).

Another game that uses a staggered grid is the OOP Hasbro game Battleball— American Football in a futuristic setting, sort of a simple form of Bloodbowl (though otherwise not related to that GW game). Works fairly well.

[Finarvyn]

Apr 22, 2024 13:19:01 GMT -6 mouser said:

PS: Something I find fascinating about the staggered grid is that it's slightly different depending on which way you're facing.

Yes, this is a common thing found in hex maps. I think that Jim Dunnigan (former SPI designer) referred to this as the "grain" but I don't see that terminology used in a quick Google search online. A more common vocabulary appears to be "horizontal hexes" versus "vertical hexes" and refers to which direction of movement is a true straight line and which direction requires a side-to-side wiggle movement.

gamedev.stackexchange.com/questions/49718/vertical-vs-horizontal-hex-grids-pros-and-cons

On another topic, I should see if I have my old rules for Battlestar Galactica Viper-vs-Cylon battles. I used a configuration of dice to represent the battlestar, with the pips representing gun batteries and launch bays and the like. Vipers and Cylon ships were RISK pieces (I have a copy of the version of RISK with those Y-shaped pieces, which sort of look like Vipers anyway). It was really a simple system but kept me busy refighting some of the same scenarios over and over for hours. Ah, the mind of a kid.

[Otto Harkaman]

Glen Larson wrote 10+ pulp Battlestar Galactica novels
www.fantasticfiction.com/l/glen-larson/

[Parzival]

Those would be fun to mine for adventure scenarios.

[mouser]

The books are great! I think I had them all at one point. I remember them quite clearly.

[chicagowiz]

Some of the books can be found on Internet Archive. I've used them for ideas in my ongoing (almost a year!) Traveller/BSG game.