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MCDM RPG
Jan 8, 2024 19:11:33 GMT -6
via mobile
Post by Starbeard on Jan 8, 2024 19:11:33 GMT -6
When it comes to 2d6 rolls for RPG mechanics, the options are basically either T&T or Traveller.
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Post by thegreyelf on Jan 9, 2024 5:56:55 GMT -6
Sounds a little like my Powered by O.R.C.S. games: Spellcraft & Swordplay and (if you like) Wasted Lands. Has something changed in recent editions of your games, Jason? As I recall in my old old S&S copy, it was a 2d6 roll plus the ability Score modifier VS a static target number..? True, it was a static target number (originally 11). That is a bit different in expression, though you also always added difficulty modifiers, which is essentially just a different expression of a sliding target number - flat + difficulty bonus vs. sliding with no difficulty bonus. In addition, combat always used a sliding target number as you consulted a weapon vs. AC chart to see what you needed to hit. The latest iteration of O.R.C.S. in Wasted Lands shifts the target number to 14 and gets rid of the chart, using 2d6 + bonuses vs. TN 14. Weapons now add a weapon class, and you add the opponent's AC as the difficulty modifier in combat (much as you do in O.G.R.E.S.) |
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Post by jeffb on Jan 9, 2024 14:52:17 GMT -6
Has something changed in recent editions of your games, Jason? As I recall in my old old S&S copy, it was a 2d6 roll plus the ability Score modifier VS a static target number..? True, it was a static target number (originally 11). That is a bit different in expression, though you also always added difficulty modifiers, which is essentially just a different expression of a sliding target number - flat + difficulty bonus vs. sliding with no difficulty bonus. In addition, combat always used a sliding target number as you consulted a weapon vs. AC chart to see what you needed to hit. The latest iteration of O.R.C.S. in Wasted Lands shifts the target number to 14 and gets rid of the chart, using 2d6 + bonuses vs. TN 14. Weapons now add a weapon class, and you add the opponent's AC as the difficulty modifier in combat (much as you do in O.G.R.E.S.) Ok. Thanks Jason, I thought I was remembering correctly on the version of S&S I have. So what I was getting at is the difference between T&T and MCDM (according to what was posted/I quoted earlier) vs. the 80 million inspired by D&D games is that the former don't use the Ability score BONUS- you use the ability SCORE. e.g. In T&T any saving roll is your Ability SCORE + the 2d6 roll vs TN- LVL1 SR is TN of 20, LVL 2 is 25, LVL3 is 30, etc. If I had a LUCK score of 12 and needed to make a Level 1 LUCK saving throw, I would roll 2D6, add my score of 12 and go against a TN of 20*. In T&T you also get to add and roll again if you rolls doubles. I know some folks hate adding bigger numbers, but I just love the idea of using the actual ability score. Gary's idea (maybe Dave's?) of having a score, and then translating that via chart into a D20 roll bonus, or applying it to a chart to come up with a percentage chance/ percentage bonus, or a bonus to a 1d6 roll is needless complication, IMO. Why have the scores in the first place? Actual scores are pretty much a waste of space on your character sheet for D&D. I know it's been 50 years of this, but these days I don't even bother with scores for D&D-esque games- I just have players write down a bonus/penalty as their score. e.g. STR is +1, WIS -1, etc. I know some "modern" D20 games (Mutants & Masterminds 1E and others) and even some OSR games utilize this as well (Relics & Ruins, is one of those OSR games). Just thinking out loud about game mechanics here- not being argumentative  I like MCDM's approach to dice mechanics (and FWIW, I also LOVE the Star Wars FFG dice system- conversely I hate Jay Little's own hack of his FFG dice system for the 2d20 Modiphius games) * It was actually represented "backwards" in the original era T&T editions (unsure in more modern versions like 7E, Deluxe, and Monsters! Monsters!). If you had to make a LVL1 SR, you subtracted your Ability SCORE from 20, and you had to roll that number on the 2D6 roll (doubles add and roll over- or DARO, as it's become commonly referred to). So that LUCK of 12 was subtracted from 20, leaving with you having to make a roll of 8+ on 2d6. I prefer the Add the Score to the dice roll and beat the TN, but what do I know?.. |
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Post by waysoftheearth on Jan 9, 2024 16:18:14 GMT -6
...having a score, and then translating that via chart into a D20 roll bonus, or applying it to a chart to come up with a percentage chance/ percentage bonus, or a bonus to a 1d6 roll is needless complication, IMO. Why have the scores in the first place? Actual scores are pretty much a waste of space on your character sheet for D&D. Somewhat off topic, but (I hope briefly), I agree that ability scores are non-essential for OD&D---in the game I'm running atm we're not using ability scores. That said, it is sometimes argued that OD&D ability scores are more descriptive than anything else. Another thought is that the separate ability scores provide a consistent abstraction across the top of a bunch of different sub-systems in OD&D. This would explain why we have a bunch of weird tables translating the (consistent) 3-18 ability scores into (specific) sub-system modifiers. OD&D uses various 1d6, 2d6, 1d20, 1d% dice subsystems, just off the top of my head. Having ability scores of different number ranges to suit the subsystems they're primarily used for would get... pretty awkward. I'm making this up on the spot, but I guess it's plausible that the abstract-ability-scores-plus-bunch-of-tables design is necessary to accommodate OD&D's patchwork of dice subsystems. The alternative design would be the 'universal' dice system for almost everything, which enables you to more naturally have the ability scores baked right into it. I agree that later iterations of D&D (e.g, 3rd, 4th, 5th) are kinda stranded halfway between these two extremes. I guess by then, 3d6 ability scores and tables of mods were a sacrosanct part of D&D identity they weren't prepared to change too radically? FWIW, Holmes D&D uses the dexterity score directly to determine order of striking  |
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Post by thegreyelf on Jan 10, 2024 11:01:37 GMT -6
Ok. Thanks Jason, I thought I was remembering correctly on the version of S&S I have. So what I was getting at is the difference between T&T and MCDM (according to what was posted/I quoted earlier) vs. the 80 million inspired by D&D games is that the former don't use the Ability score BONUS- you use the ability SCORE. e.g. In T&T any saving roll is your Ability SCORE + the 2d6 roll vs TN- LVL1 SR is TN of 20, LVL 2 is 25, LVL3 is 30, etc. If I had a LUCK score of 12 and needed to make a Level 1 LUCK saving throw, I would roll 2D6, add my score of 12 and go against a TN of 20*. In T&T you also get to add and roll again if you rolls doubles. Interesting. I hate to admit it, but I've never actually had the opportunity to play T&T. No worries, I didn't take it that way at all! |
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phantomtim
Level 3 Conjurer
13th Age Enthusiast
Posts: 87 
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Post by phantomtim on Jan 13, 2024 18:35:15 GMT -6
For those interested in the MCDM RPG plays, ComicBook.com has a demo on YouTube. |
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I like MCDM's approach to dice mechanics (and FWIW, I also LOVE the Star Wars FFG dice system- conversely I hate Jay Little's own hack of his FFG dice system for the 2d20 Modiphius games)
