|
|
Post by tdenmark on Jun 27, 2023 18:37:29 GMT -6
Everytime I check, these are the top 5 selling items for Wizards of the Coast on DriveThru. It is quite telling that no original Wizard's products are even in the top ten. All TSR.  The Rules Cyclopedia may be the best book TSR ever made, so deserves to be #1. |
|
|
|
Post by waysoftheearth on Jun 28, 2023 5:57:56 GMT -6
Pity those AD&D reprints are so unusable thou. The paper quality is so thin and hard, and the surface so shiny! that it makes the 6 point text waaay harder to read. My eyes can't deal with it, and I'm not even properly old yet. This pretty much makes them collector items rather than usable gaming material for me. I don't have the reprint, but B2 is of course eternal  |
|
|
|
Post by tdenmark on Jun 28, 2023 11:10:20 GMT -6
Pity those AD&D reprints are so unusable thou. The paper quality is so thin and hard, and the surface so shiny! that it makes the 6 point text waaay harder to read. My eyes can't deal with it, and I'm not even properly old yet. This pretty much makes them collector items rather than usable gaming material for me. I don't have the reprint, but B2 is of course eternal I have the AD&D reprints and totally agree, wrong paper! But these are the print-on-demand version and I don't know if they use the glossy paper. |
|
|
|
Post by raymond on Jun 28, 2023 16:55:21 GMT -6
What happens in the 6-10 slots?
|
|
|
|
Post by tdenmark on Jun 28, 2023 18:16:38 GMT -6
|
|
|
|
Post by Desparil on Jun 28, 2023 21:17:34 GMT -6
I would note that number of online sales is, in part, negatively correlated with the collector's market - the more expensive it is to get a second-hand copy in good condition, the more likely people are to get it on DriveThru instead. Sheer age buoys the price of the 1st Edition stuff, with even mediocre copies of unremarkable printings going for $50 or more, which quickly jumps up if you want something in VG or better condition and/or an early printing. I also notice several of the other high-ranking things are ones that had smaller print runs and are therefore rarer and more expensive. Certainly this applies to Planescape, d20 Modern, Gamma World, Star Frontiers, and any of the individual modules which were never used as Starter Set pack-ins. OD&D is the double-whammy of age and fewer having been printed, with DriveThru being the only way to legally acquire it without paying hundreds or even thousands of dollars at auction, or being one of those people who goes to every yard sale, garage sale, and estate sale in a 50 mile radius looking to snag rare collectibles at bargain prices.
|
|
|
|
Post by DungeonDevil on Jun 28, 2023 21:21:03 GMT -6
Technically the core rulebook reprints aren't the same vintage text with all their eye-gougingly bad OCR issues, etc. The quality of the PDFs are pretty awful (e.g. the scan for In Search of the Unknown, B1) is faint and somewhat hard to read and the maps of some modules are so bad I had to get them from other sources to be able to read the fine details. *facepalmus maximus*
|
|
|
|
Post by geoffrey on Jun 28, 2023 21:55:36 GMT -6
Everytime I check, these are the top 5 selling items for Wizards of the Coast on DriveThru. It is quite telling that no original Wizard's products are even in the top ten. All TSR. The Rules Cyclopedia may be the best book TSR ever made, so deserves to be #1. Do the top five shift around a bit amongst the five slots, or are they always in that order? In any case, I'm glad to hear that B2 (which, more than any other product, defines D&D for me) is always way up there. |
|
|
|
Post by machfront on Jun 29, 2023 6:01:10 GMT -6
I would note that number of online sales is, in part, negatively correlated with the collector's market - the more expensive it is to get a second-hand copy in good condition, the more likely people are to get it on DriveThru instead. This is one of the main reasons RC is so high, despite it being a solid work. It’s sadly expensive in the second hand market, Also, if one follows and is even partially aware of new-school gamers slightly aware and kinda sorta liking “old-school D&D” (in their online haunts), they very often gravitate to RC as it’s a thing that sorta ‘makes sense’ to them, being enormous and all encompassing and with tons of rules, etc, as they’re used to. Not that that’s bad nor good. It just is. 🤷♂️ |
|
|
|
Post by tdenmark on Jun 29, 2023 16:26:47 GMT -6
I would note that number of online sales is, in part, negatively correlated with the collector's market - the more expensive it is to get a second-hand copy in good condition, the more likely people are to get it on DriveThru instead. This is one of the main reasons RC is so high, despite it being a solid work. It’s sadly expensive in the second hand market, Also, if one follows and is even partially aware of new-school gamers slightly aware and kinda sorta liking “old-school D&D” (in their online haunts), they very often gravitate to RC as it’s a thing that sorta ‘makes sense’ to them, being enormous and all encompassing and with tons of rules, etc, as they’re used to. Not that that’s bad nor good. It just is. 🤷♂️ I'd argue that WotC should make a Rules Compendium of each edition. Not only would it be great for the fans and the history of the game, but they'd make tons of money and it'd make perennial sales, if well done. There are hundreds of devoted fans that'd be happy to contribute to a project like that. One of my most beloved books in my collection is a fan made book called the Single-Volume Edition, of OD&D. It is great. I use it a lot at the game table. |
|
|
|
Post by tdenmark on Jun 29, 2023 16:28:34 GMT -6
One of my most beloved books in my collection is a fan made book called the Single-Volume Edition, of OD&D. It is great. I use it a lot at the game table. This book also proves that OD&D is way better than anyone thinks it is. Once organized, OD&D is amazing (ok, even more amazing than it already is) |
|
|
|
Post by tdenmark on Jun 30, 2023 7:32:58 GMT -6
Do the top five shift around a bit amongst the five slots, or are they always in that order? Everytime I check (which isn't very often) these are the top five. Even just now they still are. But B1 is #5 at the moment, and the holy trilogy is 2-4. Rules Cyclopedia is always #1. Always. |
|
|
|
Post by Starbeard on Jun 30, 2023 9:14:35 GMT -6
I've been told that the hottest items list goes through some algorithms to weigh titles. If you "see all" then sort by popularity, these are the first titles:
Minsc and Boo's Journal of Villainy (5e)
D&D Rules Cyclopedia (Basic)
Players Handbook (1e)
Dungeon Masters Guide (1e)
Planescape Campaign Setting (2e)
Player's Handbook, Revised (2e)
Monster Manual (1e)
B2 The Keep on the Borderlands (Basic)
Domains of Delight (5e)
Monstrous Manual (2e)
Dungeon Master Guide, Revised (2e)
D&D Basic Set Rulebook (B/X ed.) (Basic)
GAZ1 The Grand Duchy of Karameikos (Basic)
I6 Ravenloft (1e)
A few notes:
- The "popularity" sort must also be weighted in some way, because there are free items on offer and all the hottest items and most popular titles are conspicuously in the higher price brackets if what WOTC has on DTRPG.
- The 5e products seem like oddballs but they are also charities, which may affect their placement either in true or calculated "popularity."
- There's some shuffling and additions, but the same top 5 from hottest titles make the top of the popularity list.
- 3e products don't show up until the 3.5 PHB at #50.
- The first OD&D products are the whitebox at 24, Chainmail at 29, and Greyhawk at 82.
- B/X are at 12 & 22, while Mentzer Basic (player book) is 49, Expert is 59, and the Basic (DM book) is 62.
- The Immortal set is "more popular" than the Master set.
|
|
|
|
Post by tdenmark on Jun 30, 2023 22:23:07 GMT -6
I've been told that the hottest items list goes through some algorithms to weigh titles. If you "see all" then sort by popularity, these are the first titles: Minsc and Boo's Journal of Villainy (5e) D&D Rules Cyclopedia (Basic) - The "popularity" sort must also be weighted in some way, because there are free items on offer and all the hottest items and most popular titles are conspicuously in the higher price brackets if what WOTC has on DTRPG. - The Immortal set is "more popular" than the Master set. There may be moments when something like "Minsc and Boo's Journal of Villainy (5e)" pop to the top, but consistently the D&D Rules Cyclopedia holds a commanding position. Certainly they would have to weight this so free stuff doesn't crowd out the paid stuff. I can believe the Immortal set is more popular than the Master set. It is, after all, essentially superheroes for D&D. I've played and read it a lot and it helped to inform my own Guardians superhero RPG. |
|
|
|
Post by tdenmark on Jun 30, 2023 22:25:39 GMT -6
- The Immortal set is "more popular" than the Master set. Another note about the Immortals set, it is one of the few things missing from the D&D Rules Cyclopedia that would make it more complete. |
|
|
|
Post by Starbeard on Jun 30, 2023 23:09:47 GMT -6
- The Immortal set is "more popular" than the Master set. Another note about the Immortals set, it is one of the few things missing from the D&D Rules Cyclopedia that would make it more complete. That's a good point. I didn't look up where Wrath of the Immortals sits in either list, but I didn't notice it before the Mentzer Immortal set. My assumption is that a lot of buyers don't actually realize that WOTI is the RC update & revision of those rules. It's interesting that while the TSR renaissance portion of the OSR started with AD&D as its guiding star, the poster item seems to have slid pretty steadily from OD&D to B/X to BECMI to RC. I also wonder if the lower position of B/X is because the most popular retroclones already present that in a way that "makes sense" to new players more than the original. There's no homerun RC retroclone, and its editing feels just modern enough that as long as the POD is available there's no need for one. |
|
|
|
Post by Starbeard on Jun 30, 2023 23:15:54 GMT -6
I've been told that the hottest items list goes through some algorithms to weigh titles. If you "see all" then sort by popularity, these are the first titles: Minsc and Boo's Journal of Villainy (5e) D&D Rules Cyclopedia (Basic) - The "popularity" sort must also be weighted in some way, because there are free items on offer and all the hottest items and most popular titles are conspicuously in the higher price brackets if what WOTC has on DTRPG. - The Immortal set is "more popular" than the Master set. There may be moments when something like "Minsc and Boo's Journal of Villainy (5e)" pop to the top, but consistently the D&D Rules Cyclopedia holds a commanding position. Certainly they would have to weight this so free stuff doesn't crowd out the paid stuff. I can believe the Immortal set is more popular than the Master set. It is, after all, essentially superheroes for D&D. I've played and read it a lot and it helped to inform my own Guardians superhero RPG. I also think that seeing the same items pop up in the top spots of both lists shows that they truly are at the top, since the algorithms are clearly different yet still give up the same items in more or less the same order. The lack of 4e items anywhere near the top 100 is easy to figure, but I am actually a little surprised at the poor presence of 3rd edition, and specifically 3.0. Online I read a lot of nostalgia for 3rd, alongside the opinion that 3.5 was the beginning of everything bad with WOTC D&D. But I guess new players are coming in with no interest: you either play what Wizards is making now or you go way back to TSR. |
|
|
|
Post by machfront on Jul 1, 2023 5:17:57 GMT -6
Another note about the Immortals set, it is one of the few things missing from the D&D Rules Cyclopedia that would make it more complete. That's a good point. I didn't look up where Wrath of the Immortals sits in either list, but I didn't notice it before the Mentzer Immortal set. My assumption is that a lot of buyers don't actually realize that WOTI is the RC update & revision of those rules. It's interesting that while the TSR renaissance portion of the OSR started with AD&D as its guiding star, the poster item seems to have slid pretty steadily from OD&D to B/X to BECMI to RC. I also wonder if the lower position of B/X is because the most popular retroclones already present that in a way that "makes sense" to new players more than the original. There's no homerun RC retroclone, and its editing feels just modern enough that as long as the POD is available there's no need for one. Well, B/X and RC pdfs were both added the same year (2013) and, for quite a long time the B/X pdfs were not only tops in TSR stuff, but were top sellers on DriveThru overall. B/X was on the top list for a long time, actually. Worth noting. Also, B/X did not get a POD….RC did later (something they both deserved). Still no such for B/X. Wasn’t too too long after the RC POD that OSE finally came out in full force,…so…yeah…. |
|
|
|
Post by Desparil on Jul 1, 2023 7:40:26 GMT -6
A few notes: - The "popularity" sort must also be weighted in some way, because there are free items on offer and all the hottest items and most popular titles are conspicuously in the higher price brackets if what WOTC has on DTRPG. - The 5e products seem like oddballs but they are also charities, which may affect their placement either in true or calculated "popularity." - There's some shuffling and additions, but the same top 5 from hottest titles make the top of the popularity list. - 3e products don't show up until the 3.5 PHB at #50. - The first OD&D products are the whitebox at 24, Chainmail at 29, and Greyhawk at 82. - B/X are at 12 & 22, while Mentzer Basic (player book) is 49, Expert is 59, and the Basic (DM book) is 62. - The Immortal set is "more popular" than the Master set. A factor that's potentially even more important than weighting could be the range of dates being used to calculated the ranks. If one ranking was based on just the last month and the other was based on the past year, for example, that could result in rather different lists. Evergreen titles that get consistently high sales over time would still have a good chance to show up high on a list of short-term top sellers, but would often find themselves outranked by whatever the flavor of the month happens to be. I'd also note that 3E and 4E both have fan-hosted online SRD/compendium sites that make the core books in large part superfluous as reference works - the only value-add to actually owning a copy would be if you enjoy the artwork and fluff text - and of course, non-core books have a generally smaller audience right off the bat. |
|
|
|
Post by tdenmark on Jul 1, 2023 8:27:53 GMT -6
The lack of 4e items anywhere near the top 100 is easy to figure, but I am actually a little surprised at the poor presence of 3rd edition, and specifically 3.0. Online I read a lot of nostalgia for 3rd, alongside the opinion that 3.5 was the beginning of everything bad with WOTC D&D. But I guess new players are coming in with no interest: you either play what Wizards is making now or you go way back to TSR. I puzzled over the lack of representation of 3.0 as well. It was huge in the 2000's and quickly faded away. Now it is almost forgotten, much like 2nd edition, except for a few hardcore fans. |
|
|
|
Post by tdenmark on Jul 1, 2023 8:35:42 GMT -6
I didn't look up where Wrath of the Immortals sits in either list, but I didn't notice it before the Mentzer Immortal set. My assumption is that a lot of buyers don't actually realize that WOTI is the RC update & revision of those rules. I may not have fully realized WotI was an RC update. I never thought of it that way. Is that really what it is? |
|
|
|
Post by Starbeard on Jul 1, 2023 10:50:15 GMT -6
I didn't look up where Wrath of the Immortals sits in either list, but I didn't notice it before the Mentzer Immortal set. My assumption is that a lot of buyers don't actually realize that WOTI is the RC update & revision of those rules. I may not have fully realized WotI was an RC update. I never thought of it that way. Is that really what it is? It is. It is technically a campaign/adventure box set, but it has two books in it: one is the campaign, and the other is a 128-page set of rules for playing immortals. Both are written by Allston as part of the RC line. The rules are definitely inspired by the Immortals box set but they change and streamline significantly, and simplify some of the crunch. I haven't read all the way through it, since I'm still trying to wrap my head around Mentzer's Immortals first, but I've run into a few who have run immortals games and much prefer Allston's version. |
|
|
|
Post by Punkrabbitt on Jul 1, 2023 12:48:41 GMT -6
Regarding 3.0 and 3.5, both of those have been successfully replace by Pathfinder, which is currently supported by both Paizo and 3rd-party publishers as well as being available in hard copy both in game stores and book stores.
I wasn't very impressed with 3.0, and never bothered with 3.5 or Pathfinder.
|
|
Parzival
Level 6 Magician
Is a little Stir Crazy this year...
Posts: 401
|
Post by Parzival on Jul 27, 2023 16:49:02 GMT -6
I might point out that with the RC being so popular, those sets which are covered by it would therefore be less likely to sell to a customer who had purchased the RC. (Sort of the opposite of the I/WotI sets). B/X, however, isn’t directly connected to the RC in chronology, so it wouldn’t be perceived as being directly covered by the RC, hence the higher numbers for these books compared to their Mentzer counterparts.
Personally, I’m thinking of picking up E, C and M in PDF, even though I have the RC (original printing and PDF) and hard copies of BECM, because I enjoying having searchable texts for the old games, especially for discussion. But for play, I’ll just use the RC as my reference— I don’t need the others.
I rejected 3e when it came out, and never picked up any WotC editions until 5e. But I’ve soured on that one, so I’m back to BECMI/RC as my game.
More power to the RC! The wider it spreads, the better!
|
|
|
|
Post by boggit on Aug 6, 2023 5:56:39 GMT -6
Pity those AD&D reprints are so unusable thou. The paper quality is so thin and hard, and the surface so shiny! that it makes the 6 point text waaay harder to read. My eyes can't deal with it, and I'm not even properly old yet. This pretty much makes them collector items rather than usable gaming material for me. I don't have the reprint, but B2 is of course eternal Not to mention how ugly the covers are. The faux leather style just makes it look cheap and amateurish. |
|
|
|
Post by distortedhumor on Sept 4, 2023 10:37:42 GMT -6
I will say that it really nice to see the Rules cyclopedia so high, it a nice thing.
Older I get, more I like a single rulebook systems such as WB:FMAG, S&W complete, RC, Delving Deeper, One volume OD&D, and so on.
|
|
|
|
Post by tdenmark on Sept 6, 2023 13:12:58 GMT -6
Not to mention how ugly the covers are. The faux leather style just makes it look cheap and amateurish. It is an extension of that horrid 3.0/3.5 style cover with the fake embossed leather and jewels and metal hinges and stuff. Ugh, can't stand that look. |
|
|
|
Post by jeffb on Sept 6, 2023 13:50:08 GMT -6
Not to mention how ugly the covers are. The faux leather style just makes it look cheap and amateurish. It is an extension of that horrid 3.0/3.5 style cover with the fake embossed leather and jewels and metal hinges and stuff. Ugh, can't stand that look. You mean glass marbles and aluminum foil. I remember when they had Arnie Swekel (iirc, he was the guy who did those) on the tsr/wotc forums or maybe it was the early Eric Noah forums for a chat, and he was really razzed about those. The only one that looked halfway decent to me was the 3.0 MM and it's playdoh dragon scales. The 3.x aesthetic was just horrible period..covers, layout, art direction. Some of the later 3.5 FR and Eberron stuff was good for my tastes (not Wayne), but yeah..those "tomes"..lol. |
|
|
|
Post by tdenmark on Sept 6, 2023 14:10:35 GMT -6
It is an extension of that horrid 3.0/3.5 style cover with the fake embossed leather and jewels and metal hinges and stuff. Ugh, can't stand that look. You mean glass marbles and aluminum foil. I remember when they had Arnie Swekel (iirc, he was the guy who did those) on the tsr/wotc forums or maybe it was the early Eric Noah forums for a chat, and he was really razzed about those. The only one that looked halfway decent to me was the 3.0 MM and it's playdoh dragon scales. The 3.x aesthetic was just horrible period..covers, layout, art direction. Some of the later 3.5 FR and Eberron stuff was good for my tastes (not Wayne), but yeah..those "tomes"..lol. I saw the artist at a convention once with the actual physical models he built on display. As real 3-dimensional objects they were ok, like hand made tomes, but photographing them and flattening them for the printing press just made the whole thing so phony. There was one I liked: the Forgotten Realms Campaign Guide. That whole line looked pretty good to me. Graphic design, layout, artwork and all.  |
|
|
|
Post by jeffb on Sept 6, 2023 17:28:14 GMT -6
You mean glass marbles and aluminum foil. I remember when they had Arnie Swekel (iirc, he was the guy who did those) on the tsr/wotc forums or maybe it was the early Eric Noah forums for a chat, and he was really razzed about those. The only one that looked halfway decent to me was the 3.0 MM and it's playdoh dragon scales. The 3.x aesthetic was just horrible period..covers, layout, art direction. Some of the later 3.5 FR and Eberron stuff was good for my tastes (not Wayne), but yeah..those "tomes"..lol. I saw the artist at a convention once with the actual physical models he built on display. As real 3-dimensional objects they were ok, like hand made tomes, but photographing them and flattening them for the printing press just made the whole thing so phony. There was one I liked: the Forgotten Realms Campaign Guide. That whole line looked pretty good to me. Graphic design, layout, artwork and all. Yep the FRCS and other books looked better with the color of the pages and the covers, though the print was quite small. I still did not care much for the drastic shift from the Renaissance meets Traditional fantasy artwork of 2E FR to the Dark Fantasy/DungeonPunk look for FR during the 3.0 period, but it got better towards the end of 3.5 (Lost Empires of Faerun is one that stands out to me visually because of the shift from the early 3.0 look) |
|
