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Post by machfront on May 23, 2023 5:34:37 GMT -6
I’m a backer. No pdf here all these hours later… folks on the other side of the pond are already posting about it, too. 😕
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Post by machfront on May 23, 2023 5:47:53 GMT -6
Oh. Good Lord. Though everything was perfect a handful of years back with the original OSE KS…now, out of nowhere it (KS) somehow didn’t ‘know’ or otherwise assumed my email was ‘wrong’. It adjusted itself after a handful of ‘confirmations’ , but still nothing. Funny how, like the IRS, they can quite easily know who you are to take your money….otherwise…nah…. 🙄
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Post by machfront on May 23, 2023 5:51:01 GMT -6
Now everything is ‘fixed’. Will I get the pdf now automatically? I’ll bet money, not.
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Post by machfront on May 23, 2023 5:54:45 GMT -6
Oh, but my info was all PERFECTLY FINE when taking my money, though, of course….right? Yeah. Urgh. 😐
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Post by jeffb on May 23, 2023 10:21:18 GMT -6
Did you get your backerkit survey link? That is where you find your PDF. In the digital rewards/downloads.
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Post by tdenmark on May 23, 2023 13:08:52 GMT -6
Oh, but my info was all PERFECTLY FINE when taking my money, though, of course….right? Yeah. Urgh. 😐 You should have received an email with a link to Backerkit where you confirm your info. Sometimes people move, so publishers like to make sure they have the most recent address to send the book to.
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Post by tdenmark on May 23, 2023 13:15:17 GMT -6
Got the PDF yesterday and devoured it.
My initial thoughts are Matt Finch took a beautiful stone and polished and refined it even more. No surprises. One thing I noticed is that the layout and legibility of the graphic design may be "better", certainly better than the previous Complete S&W, to my eye the original layout from a decade ago is still the best.
And the art is...no bueno. For example why is the cleric weirdly sexy? Matt could have called me I would have delivered him some kickass old school D&D illos. Ah well, more time for illustrating my own books.
So we still don't have the perfect retro-clone, though this book is really well done. I'm glad to have it. We'll see if it has a permanent home at my gaming table like the original S&W does.
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Post by chicagowiz on May 23, 2023 15:08:18 GMT -6
So we still don't have the perfect retro-clone, though this book is really well done. I'm glad to have it. We'll see if it has a permanent home at my gaming table like the original S&W does. One of the reasons I've stuck with the 2nd printing of Core S&W (yea, the one back in 2009...) is because the system, as-is, works. Is there that much new material in here or is it more just polishing of what was already there and working?
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Post by machfront on May 23, 2023 17:00:17 GMT -6
I didn’t get the Backerkit link. Matt sent me one, however.
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Post by jeffb on May 23, 2023 19:22:19 GMT -6
So we still don't have the perfect retro-clone, though this book is really well done. I'm glad to have it. We'll see if it has a permanent home at my gaming table like the original S&W does. One of the reasons I've stuck with the 2nd printing of Core S&W (yea, the one back in 2009...) is because the system, as-is, works. Is there that much new material in here or is it more just polishing of what was already there and working? See my post from the 1st page- nothing groundbreaking- cleanup and some additions link
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Post by chicagowiz on May 23, 2023 20:51:03 GMT -6
See my post from the 1st page- nothing groundbreaking- cleanup and some additions linkAha! Must've missed that. Thank you! Funny, the treasure rules are ones that I've always enjoyed, especially the chart from the WB that would split up the treasure into various coins. I iterated on Ramsay's treasure tool code and came up with one that you just put in your XP value that you were awarding against and it figured out the rest, including coin breakdown. etinerra.com/swtools/
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Post by machfront on May 24, 2023 6:07:18 GMT -6
So we still don't have the perfect retro-clone, though this book is really well done. I'm glad to have it. We'll see if it has a permanent home at my gaming table like the original S&W does. One of the reasons I've stuck with the 2nd printing of Core S&W (yea, the one back in 2009...) is because the system, as-is, works. Is there that much new material in here or is it more just polishing of what was already there and working? I absolutely do not wish to insult your intelligence in any way….but…just to be certain…you do realize the differences between Core and Complete, yes?
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Post by chicagowiz on May 24, 2023 7:10:22 GMT -6
I absolutely do not wish to insult your intelligence in any way….but…just to be certain…you do realize the differences between Core and Complete, yes? Yep. Complete has all the extras of all the supplements, while Core is what S&W originally came out with (3LBBs+Supp1). It's just hard to see how they could keep adding stuff without eventually being not-OD&D, closer to AD&D. :shrug: Maybe it's just a personal preference thing - Finarvyn's WB and 2009 2nd printing, to me, were the ones that hit all the things I needed. Everyone's got their sweet spot and I guess that's why we can have successful Kickstarters 14 years later...
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Post by robertsconley on May 24, 2023 14:27:23 GMT -6
One of the reasons I've stuck with the 2nd printing of Core S&W (yea, the one back in 2009...) is because the system, as-is, works. Same reason as to why I used Core 2nd printing for the foundation of my Majestic Fantasy RPG.
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Post by tdenmark on May 24, 2023 16:21:02 GMT -6
I absolutely do not wish to insult your intelligence in any way….but…just to be certain…you do realize the differences between Core and Complete, yes? Yep. Complete has all the extras of all the supplements, while Core is what S&W originally came out with (3LBBs+Supp1). It's just hard to see how they could keep adding stuff without eventually being not-OD&D, closer to AD&D. :shrug: Maybe it's just a personal preference thing - Finarvyn's WB and 2009 2nd printing, to me, were the ones that hit all the things I needed. Everyone's got their sweet spot and I guess that's why we can have successful Kickstarters 14 years later... I have to make a correction. There is a perfect retroclone: the SVE. But if you can't find that, Finarvyn's WB is about as close to a perfect retroclone as you can legally get.
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Post by chicagowiz on May 24, 2023 16:28:19 GMT -6
Finarvyn's WB is about as close to a perfect retroclone as you can legally get. Amen!
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Post by jeffb on May 25, 2023 5:28:38 GMT -6
Whitebox is my absolute favorite too. I'm hoping Matt will do something with it as well, but I'm not holding my breath. His last incarnation was very underwhelming. I know mamy like FMAG, but that also didn't do much for me.
I love the original Mythmere and the BH single volume prints best.
All that said, Complete is probably the closest to the actual OD&D games our group was playing in 77/78. The lbbs, GH, EW, amd the basic book from Holmes and the Monster Manual when they turned up new. Of course we ignored a bunch, and interpreted things in different ways, but as a set of rules, Complete mimics it well. I also use it as a supplement at the table to s&w white box for the extra spells/spell levels, magic items, monsters, etc. Sort of the way we used AD&D to supplement our OD&D games.
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Post by jeffb on Jun 10, 2023 5:40:11 GMT -6
Backers-
Make sure you hit up your Backerkit digital downloads section again- they've uploaded the revised (errata) rulebook, the spellbooks, the character sheet, referee screen inserts (P&L), an AD&D type DM log sheet, and a 20 page player reference booklet which looks great to hand out to players as a "all you need to play" document along with a spellbook (if needed).
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Post by machfront on Jun 10, 2023 6:43:42 GMT -6
Outside of Verhaden’s lovely, simple look to his layout of the first couple editions of S&W:WhiteBox, this is the best S&W has ever looked, and it’s about time, frankly.
Feels like a pebble in the shoe that the alternative Holmes sequence is noted as “1978” rather than “1977”, though. Heh
Edit: still felt it was past time for Complete to officially add the SR Bard and Illusionist. So odd to include the ranger but not they.
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Post by machfront on Jun 11, 2023 4:58:42 GMT -6
I’m actually more looking forward to the next edition/version of Core, as it was updated with the last iteration of Complete, so, surely….and I hope, we’ll see such occur again
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Post by jeffb on Jul 20, 2023 18:16:29 GMT -6
The two adventures- "Doom of Malakar" (solo) and "Legacy of Blackscale Lagoon" (sandbox) dropped in PDF today.
Just finished downloading them , so no impressions yet.
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Post by jeffb on Jul 21, 2023 6:21:08 GMT -6
Gave them both a 10 min once over last night.
I tried not to spoiler myself with the solo adventure, however this looks to have some interesting locations, and they have done a good job of adding some rules elements to make solo play more fun. I'd prefer to wait for the print copy as solos on PDF suck to play, but I still might give it a go anyway.
The GM adventure looks a bit..uninspired, or maybe just thrown together real quick. The locations seemed typical (in a plain uninteresting sort of way), and most of the encounters seemed to be made up of the same creatures with a few odds and ends. Nothing I hate more than a adventure full of the SOS monsters for the majority of encounters. I understand it's supposed to be an introductory adventure, but...this is no Tomb of the Iron God or 1975 adventure for Complete 2nd.
I'll reserve final judgement for a proper read through,but I'm not expecting much to change
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Post by jeffb on Aug 14, 2023 19:48:45 GMT -6
Got an email today- Shipping label created. Should be getting my book and adventures soon.
I'm looking forward to being able to have the physical product in my hands and do some compare/contrast to 1st print Complete. But I'm REALLY looking forward to rolling up a character and tackling the solo adventure- there are so few good D&D solos and for whatever reason I've always liked playing solo modules or the old FF gamebooks, etc. I remember running through Dragon's Hall and Survival of the Fittest, but they were..just ok. Then a few years later Blizzard Pass, the other invisible ink one for the Expert set, the Ghost of Lion Castle, and the magic viewer one for AD&D. None of those were very good, and none were comparable to T&T's solos. This S&W solo looks pretty good.
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