|
Post by machfront on Aug 28, 2022 3:57:53 GMT -6
You, yes, you! It’s the mid whatever’s and you’re young and broke and hungry for Middle Earth action! You own OD&D, or OD&D + Greyhawk, or Holmes and Greyhawk, or B/X or Mentzer’s BE, 1E MM, whatever…not all…cuz you’re young and broke….some small degree of old school D&D rules, some issues of Dragon, etc.
Now…you want adventure in ME that is iconic and familiar to you and your fantasy-digging friends.
ICE products are available…let’s say, early years…like up to and including 1987.
Which one product do you choose/buy/use with your precious lawn mowing or birthday money?
I’m thinking first in the running is: Bree and the Barrowdowns Hillmen of the Trollshaws Angmar The Land of the Witch King
Personally, I bought Dagorlad in mid 1987 and wish I hadn’t. Now I’d choose Bree and the Barrowdowns due to the region and extreme familiarity plus…dude….the barrow downs…and other parts of Wilderland… more than enough for me….but…then again….the Trollshaws…..evocative and atmospheric and dangerous too…..but then….d**n….adventuring in Angmar when stuff was going down or soon after? Also cool. Yeah, still…probably Bree and the Barrowdowns for me…and my battered copies of B/X. 🙂
But I’d like to hear what you think and why. Or if you have alternative ideas…like, say it’s 1977 and you pick Holmes and….what? (Not an ICE product, obviously)….or whichever else as a fun idea. 1990 and the RC and something? How and why, again. I’d like to hear it.
Also….which one of the ICE MERP products describes Ithilien? Gates of Mordor? I dunno…
|
|
|
Post by Vile Traveller on Aug 28, 2022 5:41:40 GMT -6
I'd go for Bree as a first choice, too, but after that it would be Isengard. Megadungeon! EDIT: Inspired by this thread I just pulled out my old copy to read, and boy is the text small!
|
|
|
Post by tkdco2 on Aug 28, 2022 13:10:49 GMT -6
I'd probably go with either AD&D or B/X + Middle-earth Campaign Guide. I'd either make up the rest or get information online*. While I enjoy the MERP sourcebooks, most of them concentrate on the culture and geography of the area, giving only ideas or outlines of actual adventures. I would write my own adventures if my resources were limited. An alternative would be either Karen Wynn Fonstad's Atlas of Middle-earth for the maps or Robert Foster's Complete Guide to Middle-earth for lore. I'd rather have both, but if I'm only allowed one, this would be a difficult choice. * Assuming the internet is available at the time this exercise is set, of course. The novels are still the primary source for information.
|
|
|
Post by doublejig2 on Aug 28, 2022 17:50:29 GMT -6
This is actually a tough question. I love the MERP materials. The badlands town in Brigands of Mirkwood comes to mind, but I would be hard pressed to name just one with any finality.
|
|
|
Post by Finarvyn on Aug 28, 2022 19:00:29 GMT -6
I might be thinking about picking one of the "Lords of Middle-earth" series. Maybe "Creatures of Middle-earth." I can't recall which one has the Nazgul in it. (One is elves from the 1st age, one is hobbits and dwarves and such, maybe the third has Nazgul?) THose are certainly good products, if I recall correctly, and they have conversion scales from d100 stats to 3d6. Most of the maps and such I can figure out from Tolkien's books, so I'm not sure I would pick one of the sourcebooks over the LoMe books, but the Bree book is pretty solid if I recall correctly, and it might be a great location for a Middle-earth campaign. Or something centered around the Lonely Mountain. (And those two base locations are sort of what The One Ring uses -- Wilderlands and Shire.)
|
|
|
Post by tkdco2 on Aug 28, 2022 20:01:18 GMT -6
Lords of Middle-earth volume 2 is the one you want. That covers the Mannish races, with Luthien and a few half-elves. The ICE staff decided to include her in volume 2 because she chose mortality. Luthien also appears in volume 1, which is about the Valar, Maiar, and Elves.
|
|
|
Post by Falconer on Aug 28, 2022 20:29:16 GMT -6
Probably The Northern Waste for me, though it’s very late and doesn’t have a Pete Fenlon map. So much to explore though.
|
|
|
Post by tkdco2 on Aug 29, 2022 11:32:17 GMT -6
I did a bunch of Middle-earth stuff here and in Dragonsfoot. I even wrote up the priest spheres for the Valar.
|
|
|
Post by doublejig2 on Aug 29, 2022 12:20:53 GMT -6
MERP Laketown is a tour de force!
|
|
|
Post by jamesmishler on Aug 30, 2022 3:16:39 GMT -6
|
|
|
Post by machfront on Aug 31, 2022 7:46:43 GMT -6
All of you guys’ suggestions are fun. Thanks! I’m interested that Marv would rather delve into the “Lords” series rather than a location and, as I dug those as a young person, I can kinda see how that may work from an inspiration just as much as a locale. I’d not considered that.
James, your suggestion of the Mirkwood supplement isn’t at all outside of my ‘requirement’ as what you suggested is a compilation of two supplements from years earlier, so, yeah. Yes, Mirkwood is a great place to start, too, for certain. One has to wonder, as per my question….one supplement….northern or southern Mirkwood? And how and why?
|
|
|
Post by machfront on Aug 31, 2022 7:55:36 GMT -6
I was wondering about just this. Both the first and second edition iterations of the Campaign Guide are pretty cool and can give one just enough info…but…also…not enough info. Like…I’m personally a ‘regular nerd’ Tolkien fan…so, less knowledgeable than you. Heheh I kinda feel…feel..not think…that something focused such as “Hillman of the Troll Shaws” or “Bree and the Barrow Downs” is more valuable…in my case…. Especially and even in the thought experiment of….simple D&D rules plus wanting to play in ME and…hey…which thing do I buy for iconic ME play to help facilitate that? The campaign guide is cool…but…it still leaves one alone to decide a bunch or how’s and why’s and where’s….ya know?
|
|
|
Post by machfront on Aug 31, 2022 7:56:43 GMT -6
Probably The Northern Waste for me, though it’s very late and doesn’t have a Pete Fenlon map. So much to explore though. This is the last thing I’d expect. I’d sure like to hear you’re reasons for this selection. I don’t own it nor do I know much about it.
|
|
|
Post by Falconer on Sept 1, 2022 14:53:29 GMT -6
I had a lot of thoughts of which to pick.
Mirkwood (1988 ed.) is a huge sandbox covering the Grey Mountains to the Iron Hills to Esgaroth/Dale/Erebor to the Woodland Realm to the Carrock to Rhosgobel. It has dozens of small dungeons and one whopping big one (Dol Guldur). It is rich with cultures and treasures and mysteries and quests. I have a thread about it here (“Rhovanion”). It’s a great option.
But at the moment I feel more interested in exploring a Middle-earth sandbox which is completely unexplored, full of mystery yet dripping with Tolkien flavor. I love the southern modules, but they are just quite as Tolkienish in flavor. The north is the ultimate. I like how they dip into The Silmarillion for this one.
|
|
|
Post by tkdco2 on Sept 1, 2022 15:26:11 GMT -6
I recommend Arnor for a long-term campaign. I have two different books, Arnor: The Land and Arnor: The People. However, I think there's a single-volume book combining the two earlier sourcebooks. The books compile many of the earlier sourcebooks including Bree & the Barrow Downs.
Lorien & the Halls of the Elven Smiths is good if you want to play Elves in the Second Age. Despite Lorien being named in the title, most of the sourcebook is set in Eregion. It would help if the players don't know who Annatar really is.
|
|
|
Post by Falconer on Sept 1, 2022 19:43:27 GMT -6
Arnor—any edition (the single-volume version actually predates the two-volume version)—is a magisterial sourcebook which is SO big and SO serious that IMO the thing just doesn’t scream “play me.” There are three things I really want to do in Eriador, and three products I would rather get than Arnor (any one of these three):
1. Expeditions into the Empire of the Witch-King (expansion of the original Angmar module). Why stick around safe, civilized Arnor when you could be out plundering evil castles? Truly one of the centerpieces of the MERP experience.
2. Bree and the Barrow-downs — self explanatory and obvious appeal. Only 32 pages, but I don’t think Arnor covers all of it.
3. Palantír Quest. The original Rangers of the North module had an adventure called “The Quest for the Lost Stones” which was later expanded into a larger module. The final product is rather globe-trotting, but a good chunk of it still takes place in Eriador, hence I associate it with the region. It’s also very railroady—be warned! But with some study and preparation it should be possible to mitigate this. (Frankly most ICE modules require a lot of study and preparation.)
|
|
|
Post by jeffb on Sept 2, 2022 7:29:44 GMT -6
I'm with tkdco2 MECG would be my choice for early materials. But... if I could sneak a later book instead it would be the massive "Arnor" or "Arnor:The Land"
|
|
|
Post by tkdco2 on Sept 2, 2022 12:10:50 GMT -6
Another option is Minas Ithil, centuries before it becomes Minas Morgul. The city is described as a haven for artists and scholars. It's kind of an artsy-fartsy place, so some would argue that evil is a step up.
|
|
|
Post by Vile Traveller on Sept 2, 2022 12:44:30 GMT -6
This thread brought back fond memories of the 80s, when we played a bunch of unemployed 20-somethings from Milton Keynes let loose in a MERP sandbox Middle Earth with £2,500 of gear taken from a Gun Mart magazine. We just used pretty random time periods for each module, so Cardolan was still there, Saruman was in Isengard, and the elves had abandoned Rivendell. Happy times.
|
|
|
Post by jamesmishler on Sept 3, 2022 7:08:11 GMT -6
I should note that my desire to run a campaign in Mirkwood partially stems from the fact that Bob Bledsaw's original OD&D campaign, which he ran before he founded Judges Guild, was set mostly in Mirkwood and environs... After all, that was how he was inspired to call his own campaign setting "The Wilderlands," after his original Middle-earth campaign set in "Wilderland"...
|
|
|
Post by tkdco2 on Sept 3, 2022 14:26:40 GMT -6
Mirkwood is a good choice for a campaign. If we're only allowed one MERP product, the North and South Mirkwood modules were later combined into one volume. There are also at least two "ready-to-run" adventure modules set in Mirkwood, as well as a sourcebook about the halls of Thranduil and the Wood-elves.
I was wondering how difficult it would be to convert MERP to TOR, or vice versa. I know the systems aren't compatible, but would the adventures have a compatible style?
|
|
|
Post by machfront on Sept 11, 2022 7:55:40 GMT -6
I see I’ve got a bit more to consider than I originally imagined. That’s okay, though. I’ve no MERP products that cover Arnor (unless I have one of the products that have the so-called ‘ready to run’ adventures in the area and I’m unaware the setting is such…I’ll have to look again. I’m still soft on Wilderland in general. Yeah. I know it’s done and done…still. But, why not take advantage of it and Mirkwood too…and then go up north to Arnor? Again, I’ve got lots to read and think on.
Also…sadly…to buy. Heheh!
|
|
|
Post by machfront on Sept 11, 2022 8:02:45 GMT -6
Oh, wait. Arnor already includes those places…Bree, Amon Sul, the region of Rhudaur…
Ugh.
I’m so confused. Fan that I am….I just…I can’t keep all this stuff straight…. Kingdoms, regions, lands, etc. They all seems to run together so often for me, leaving me lost as I said. 😕
|
|
|
Post by tkdco2 on Sept 11, 2022 13:15:01 GMT -6
|
|
|
Post by Vile Traveller on Sept 11, 2022 13:26:58 GMT -6
They all seems to run together so often for me, leaving me lost as I said. 😕 I found that it's fine to mash up everything with no thought to timelines or geography, just using whatever works best for the next session - as long as you have no Tolkien purists in your group, and I don't tend to play with purists.
|
|
|
Post by Falconer on Sept 11, 2022 19:19:39 GMT -6
I posted these maps in another thread but thought they might be useful here. I broke Middle-earth into regions (those which have MERP modules). Far North & East Eriador South Far South Rhovanion
|
|
|
Post by jeffb on Sept 11, 2022 19:29:54 GMT -6
Good (series of) article(s) from a few years back- overviews of regions and peoples, times, and approach to using D&D for ME. Basements & Balrogs
|
|
|
Post by tkdco2 on Sept 11, 2022 19:43:58 GMT -6
If we're allowed only one MERP product, are we allowed other resources? There are books and maps on Middle-earth, but they're not intended as gaming material. Are they allowed in order to expand the campaign?
That said, you can keep your campaign in a single location. The MERP books include lots of information about the area they cover.
|
|
|
Post by machfront on Sept 12, 2022 7:48:33 GMT -6
If we're allowed only one MERP product, are we allowed other resources? There are books and maps on Middle-earth, but they're not intended as gaming material. Are they allowed in order to expand the campaign? That said, you can keep your campaign in a single location. The MERP books include lots of information about the area they cover. Yeah. My ‘thought experiment’, such as it is….was simply as I said in my OP… That you have your single source of D&D rules for the time….but, you have only one single MERP RPG source c. 1986/7...if you’ve Robert Fosters book or other stuff like The Tolkien Companion, etc. no matter…. Of course you own the trilogy +…why would ya not, if you want to play a Middle-Earth game in your excitement over this new game you’ve grown/known to love? In short…. What iteration might you have of D&D (photocopies of this and that even count)? And which single MERP supplement do you choose to purchase with your hard-earned lawn-mowing money that you don’t spend on the new Dio album? lol
|
|
|
Post by machfront on Sept 12, 2022 7:52:50 GMT -6
Good (series of) article(s) from a few years back- overviews of regions and peoples, times, and approach to using D&D for ME. Basements & BalrogsOh. Hey. That’s fun. Nice and simple and straightforward in an almost beginner friendly manner. I read it. Decent lil ‘campaign guide’ without too much mess.I think I’ll save and read again on an off day. Thanks, man.
|
|