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Post by jeffb on Jul 11, 2022 16:49:19 GMT -6
scuttlebutt says... link to BLOG postI'm happy to hear this- FGG screwed the pooch years ago with S&W. Does anyone have any further info? Apparently there is a new Facebook group, but I don't Facebook. |
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Post by capitalbill on Jul 11, 2022 18:47:26 GMT -6
Matt is no longer affiliated with FGG.
Mythmere Games kickstarted a new version of the Tome of Adventure Design (pdf fulfilled, hard copy will still be a bit). They will be getting a new printing of the rulebook out next, with City Encounters and some other stuff on the docket after.
Some stuff for sale on their website, there is a new Facebook group with some momentum growing, and he has done a couple of interviews on plans.
FGG looks to be selling through remaining stock of the S&W Complete box sets. Not sure if their future old school versions of releases will be generic OSR or OSE or what.
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Post by Piper on Jul 11, 2022 19:42:03 GMT -6
Does anyone have any further info? Apparently there is a new Facebook group, but I don't Facebook. Nothing on the FB page, just positive news. I like that, personally. *—— *no offense intended to any person or persons reading |
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Post by scottenkainen on Jul 13, 2022 8:33:41 GMT -6
Seems like a good decision.
I had two modules published by Frog God Games. The first was edited by Matt Finch, because it was going to be published by Mythmere Games. He put a lot of work into it, adding material and making it better. The second module was handled by Frog God Games, who put no effort into editing, or even proofreading, before publishing it.
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Post by Starbeard on Jul 14, 2022 15:36:57 GMT -6
While I have no idea what things look like on the inside, from a business standpoint it's the best move for both parties. FGG has a poor record with its S&W support, so it's good for Finch to break free of that. From what I gather, FGG will definitely be going with OSE compatibility going forward, which from a selling standpoint is probably the best move for them too: after having already admitted that their 5e sales already dwarf everything else they support, it's only a matter of time before they drop everything, so of course they'll want to move toward whatever is actually making money in the field. For years S&W under them had already felt like little more than a marketing expense to maintain their old school street cred, to be honest.
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Post by Deleted on Jul 16, 2022 7:48:13 GMT -6
One thing I noticed a while back when I was first reading up on this and listening to Matt talk on some podcasts, etc. is that he expressed interest in resurrecting and doing something with Whitebox and Core. I thought that was interesting because I assumed Light and Continual Light had displaced those. I also find it interesting in the case of Whitebox because there's a third party expansion that's very well known and respected already. Almost seems redundant. I doubt anything would really surpass the quality of FMAG in that regard. It's a fantastic little digest-sized OD&D game that's so d**n good that one of the guys who played in my local games now runs his own with it. That really blows me away because I wasn't sure I could sell these guys on Old School at all, and now they play it more than I do.
On the other hand, I'm definitely all for seeing what Mythmere does with Complete and Core going forward. I obviously am a proponent of any variant of Swords & Wizardry as it's what made me notice Old School in the first place and despite some waffling around it continues to be what I go back to. I'm less interested in adventure books than tool kits like Tome of Adventure Design, personally. I helped support the kickstarter of the revision, after all. I never did much like running someone else's adventures. I might borrow ideas or encounters from them but I would much rather have products that are designed specifically to aid my own creative process. I hope we see more in that vein this time around.
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Post by Starbeard on Jul 18, 2022 16:15:53 GMT -6
I have to admit I'm totally behind the times on the taxonomy of S&S variants. It feels a bit now like keeping track of the "Yes family" of musicians associated with Yes.
So there's S&W… is that what's called S&W Core these days? And that's D&D with Greyhawk? And S&W Complete is the other (commonly used bits from) the rest of the supplements?
Then I know of S&S Whitebox, which is just the D&D boxed set, right? So what makes the Whitebox FMAG not S&S WB?
Then we have two I haven't heard of before. S&W Light, which is what? A Basic Set version of S&W Core? And that makes S&W Continual Light… a Basic Set version of Complete?
And am I correct in thinking that most of the whole "Whitehack" barebones game thing is a stripped down version of Whitebox (or or would it be Whitebox FMAG?)? And is "The Blackhack" thing a sub-sub-community of Whitehack? Or are both of those just completely in another playground?
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Post by hamurai on Jul 18, 2022 22:25:55 GMT -6
As far as I remember, "Whitehack" is rather different from the rest and employs very different classes and some rather free-form character creation with "vocations" and other elements, combined with class features. As I remember it, it had more crunch than the "white" in Whitehack suggested.
"Blackhack" stuck in my brain as a mix of D&D and Symbaroum, with D&D stats and Symbaroum-like player-faced rolls based on your stats, so when attacking or defending in melee you roll a d20 below your STR attribute, in ranged combat you use DEX, for example. Armor allows to soak damage but gets used up doing that. And it employs the resource die to keep track of torches, arrows, rations etc. There are an insane amount of "hacks" or addons because of the huge hype, which, honestly, I can't understand.
"S&W Light" is sort of rules-light Basic Set version, "S&W Continual Light" expands the game (level-wise) but stays rules-light.
"S&W WB" and "Whitebox FMAG" are very similar and right now I can't think of a distinguishing feature. It's mostly the presentation which makes WB FMAG stand out in my memory.
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Post by Finarvyn on Jul 19, 2022 7:18:52 GMT -6
"S&W WB" and "Whitebox FMAG" are very similar and right now I can't think of a distinguishing feature. It's mostly the presentation which makes WB FMAG stand out in my memory. I no longer am tied to the WB rules set and get no money for the thing, but I'm really proud of the results and I really love the FMAG version. Great layout. I bought a bunch of copies to hand out to potential players. (Around $5 on Amazon, I think.) EDIT: www.amazon.com/White-Box-Fantastic-Medieval-Adventure/dp/1545516480 |
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Post by hamurai on Jul 19, 2022 8:33:19 GMT -6
Yeah, the FMAG version is well done and very affordable. I also have several copies to hand out for one-shot games and interested players.
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Post by jeffb on Jul 19, 2022 8:47:54 GMT -6
"S&W WB" and "Whitebox FMAG" are very similar and right now I can't think of a distinguishing feature. It's mostly the presentation which makes WB FMAG stand out in my memory. I no longer am tied to the WB rules set and get no money for the thing, but I'm really proud of the results As you should be Fin. FWIW- While I appreciate the FMAG layout, I still prefer the first few prints of WB- I think the single volume purple cover BHP offering is the best version for "at the table" use for a DM, and aesthetically Mullen covers are unequalled. |
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Post by cadriel on Jul 19, 2022 12:11:01 GMT -6
S&W Core is the sort of "middle ground" between Whitebox and Complete. It takes the original booklets, adds in the thief but not the paladin, as well as a simplified version of some of the Greyhawk material (ability score adjustments, spells, monsters, magic items) but leaves out things like percentile Strength or weapon vs armor tables. As a result, Core winds up being something like Holmes with extra levels - though without the Holmes idiosyncrasies.
Swords & Wizardry Light was a version of the game that Erik Tenkar did to reduce the game to a four-page giveaway. I honestly don't care for it. Continual Light expanded it to a pamphlet that you could run as a slightly more robust system. Its biggest issue is that it manages to not be compatible with any other edition of Swords & Wizardry. It's terse but IMO it is in no way an improvement on Whitebox.
The funny thing about different editions is that the exploration rules (listening at doors, surprise checks, etc) had been left out of the first edition of Swords & Wizardry. They were restored in later editions, but S&W Whitebox was based on the first edition - and as such was missing the same rules. White Box FMAG also puts them back in - at least one factor in its corner.
Anyway, I'll be very happy to see new life out of Swords & Wizardry. Even though I will always say it's "inspired by" OD&D rather than a "clone", it's a really nice game and well put together, and it's still generally my preference among OSR games.
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Post by Deleted on Jul 19, 2022 14:24:04 GMT -6
I have to admit I'm totally behind the times on the taxonomy of S&S variants. It feels a bit now like keeping track of the "Yes family" of musicians associated with Yes. So there's S&W… is that what's called S&W Core these days? And that's D&D with Greyhawk? And S&W Complete is the other (commonly used bits from) the rest of the supplements? Then I know of S&S Whitebox, which is just the D&D boxed set, right? So what makes the Whitebox FMAG not S&S WB? Then we have two I haven't heard of before. S&W Light, which is what? A Basic Set version of S&W Core? And that makes S&W Continual Light… a Basic Set version of Complete? And am I correct in thinking that most of the whole "Whitehack" barebones game thing is a stripped down version of Whitebox (or or would it be Whitebox FMAG?)? And is "The Blackhack" thing a sub-sub-community of Whitehack? Or are both of those just completely in another playground? The main version of S&W is "complete" but they just call it "Swords & Wizardry" nowadays. When Finch ran his Swords of Jordoba campaign on Youtube he called his rules "1977 D&D" which isn't completely inaccurate. It's one way people might have played the game with available materials back then, as interpreted by Finch. Uses material from all the main OD&D booklets and a bit from Strategic Review, like the Ranger class. Whitebox is supposed to roughly emulate 3lbb and Core is supposed to be a version of "1975 D&D", so it takes a little bit of Greyhawk into consideration. FMAG is a third party revision and expansion of Whitebox that puts back in some of the exploration rules left out of Whitebox. Light is an ultra-lite revision of Whitebox and Continual Light is an expansion of said revision - so sort of an alternative to Whitebox from more recent years. Whitehack and Blackhack are written and sold by different people and entirely unrelated to one another except that they're both "hacks" of the OD&D concept. There's no relation between them and Matt Finch or S&W. It's just different authors who wanted to do OSR games based on OD&D. (Not so much clones, though, as re-interpretations. I prefer the clones.) |
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Post by distortedhumor on Jul 27, 2022 23:27:27 GMT -6
I play S&W as my go to when I am playing OD&D games, be it white box or complete. Whitebox I have some houserules
* Added Thief
* Keep the hit dice and damage D6 based
* Dwarves, Halflings are much like Elves now (Choose a class at the start of adventure) with Dwarves being Fighter/Clerics and Halflings Fighter/Thieves.
* Level limit of 10 total levels, humans get a extra hit die
* A few added spells (Magic Missile) and a few changes (Sleep gets a save)
Complete I play rather close to how written.
I actually play S&W and Labyrinth Lord (regular or Advanced) even more then actual TSR rules for various reasons. Currently running a white box game, but players might want to go to complete to see how it is.
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Post by SebastianDM on Jul 28, 2022 1:30:13 GMT -6
I play S&W as my go to when I am playing OD&D games, be it white box or complete. Whitebox I have some houserules * Added Thief * Keep the hit dice and damage D6 based * Dwarves, Halflings are much like Elves now (Choose a class at the start of adventure) with Dwarves being Fighter/Clerics and Halflings Fighter/Thieves. * Level limit of 10 total levels, humans get a extra hit die * A few added spells (Magic Missile) and a few changes (Sleep gets a save) Complete I play rather close to how written. I actually play S&W and Labyrinth Lord (regular or Advanced) even more then actual TSR rules for various reasons. Currently running a white box game, but players might want to go to complete to see how it is. I like your house rules. I have been thinking about how to give humans some more when removing level limits or something similar. When do you give humans their extra hit die? At first level or as an 11th level? Also, isn't giving a save v. all spells the default rule? |
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Post by distortedhumor on Jul 28, 2022 5:59:23 GMT -6
I play S&W as my go to when I am playing OD&D games, be it white box or complete. Whitebox I have some houserules * Added Thief * Keep the hit dice and damage D6 based * Dwarves, Halflings are much like Elves now (Choose a class at the start of adventure) with Dwarves being Fighter/Clerics and Halflings Fighter/Thieves. * Level limit of 10 total levels, humans get a extra hit die * A few added spells (Magic Missile) and a few changes (Sleep gets a save) Complete I play rather close to how written. I actually play S&W and Labyrinth Lord (regular or Advanced) even more then actual TSR rules for various reasons. Currently running a white box game, but players might want to go to complete to see how it is. I like your house rules. I have been thinking about how to give humans some more when removing level limits or something similar. When do you give humans their extra hit die? At first level or as an 11th level? Also, isn't giving a save v. all spells the default rule? Humans get the hit dice at the start, means that humans are tempting as those hit points really help in surviving low level. While the Demi-human players are happy that they don't have level limits. As for sleep and so on it just that I made it clear that there a save involved. Clerics with 15+ wisdom also get a bonus first level spell, (wizards get one for 15+ intelligence) and I let demihumans keep whichever class hit dice roll is higher. (For example, if a Elf been adventuring as a fighter and gets to level 6 with 20 hit points, and next session decides to be a Magic user, they are a level 1 MU with 20 hit points. The d6 thief and then making each of the demi-humans two classes gives a nice balance to the game. |
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Post by waysoftheearth on Jul 28, 2022 7:17:42 GMT -6
Also, isn't giving a save v. all spells the default rule? Depends what the "default rule" is  A saving throw vs the sleep spell appeared in D&D 3rd Ed (year 2000). |
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