Post by Finarvyn on Jun 22, 2022 4:27:57 GMT -6
I found an interesting post from 2007 at K&KA and rather than resurrect a 15-year-old post there (with essentially zero discussion) I thought I would start something here. (You can find the post at www.knights-n-knaves.com/phpbb3/viewtopic.php?f=43&t=3816 for anyone interested.)
Turns out that I am also currently reading book one of The History of the Hobbit, which led me to search for stuff like this. Fundamentally, I'm curious if Falconer did anything more with this, or if others have tried to put together a Hobbit-era campaign.
I just wanted to note that originally the idea of this project was to exclude The Lord of the Rings entirely, and just take The Hobbit on its own basis. While that was an interesting idea in theory, in practice it didn't really seem like anyone would actually run a campaign where there was absolutely no influence from the LR. So I have quietly dropped the LR ban.
My own campaign will indeed be very much a "Northern" campaign, taking a conscious effort to be as much based on the H as on the LR. The standard understanding nowadays seems to be that LR is canon and H is of dubious authority, trusted only when it fits in to LR's world-view. I am taking the opposite approach.
That means the campaign is characterized by H's sense of free-wheeling episodic adventure (within larger quests), its Icelandic/Germanic character (Mirkwood! Dwarves!), and its more free approach to monsters and magic (remember Stone Giants? talking ravens? enchanted streams, elfin circles, Gandalf whizz-bang spells, skin-changers, magic glowing swords in the secret hoards of trolls who turn to stone in the sunlight...) while not ruling out any of the multitude of coolness revealed by LR.
On the other hand, having read the first volume of The History of The Hobbit, I have to say it's FASCINATING, especially if you're a First Age buff like me. Basically, Rateliff makes a very good case that H as written actually takes place at the end of the First Age! Remember H was written before The Lost Road introduced Númenor, and long before LR introduced the history of the Rings, which factors led Tolkien to create millenia of history between the First Age and H. But consider the internal evidence between The Silmarillion as it stood in the 30's (volumes IV and V of The History of Middle-earth) and H:
[*]There is a forest in S called Taur-na-Fuin which is also known as Mirkwood.
[*]In S, after being defeated by Huan and Lúthien, Thû the Necromancer (also known later as Sauron) flees and takes up his abode in Taur-na-Fuin, a.k.a. Mirkwood, which is where we find him in H.
[*]According to S, Elrond choose the fate of Men, and indeed H represents Elrond as a Man, not an Elf. H is therefore within one Mannish lifetime of S.
[*]When Gandalf and Thorin brandish their Swords of Gondolin, the goblins all immediately recognize and name them. Clearly their memory is fresh!
[*]In S there are two kinds of dwarves: the Nauglath (stunted folk) and the Indrafangs (longbeards). All rather mercenary and taking neither the gnomes' nor Melkor's side in the wars.
[*]In fact, in S the dwarves quarrel with some elves over some treasure and raid their their cavern headquarters in their forest.
[*]In H, Thorin is lord of "one of the two races of dwarves, the Longbeards".
[*]Thorin is captured by some elves (who have cavern headquarters in a forest) because of their past wars (though Tolkien tries to give Thorin a free pass by saying it was "only the other dwarves" who had been involved!)
[*]And, in fact, the dwarves and elves near the end of H almost begin warring over treasure!
[*]In S, the two dwarven races inhabit two different mansions in Beleriand known as Belegost (mighty-fortress) and Nogrod (dwarf-cave). Though originally the Longbeards were from Belegost and the treacherous smith Telchar was from Nogrod, Tolkien later switched them, and added a translation in the dwarven language of Nogrod/dwarf-cave: Khazaddum. Neat, huh?
So, basically I'd like to continue research on understanding H in its own (pre-LR) context, and let any final writeups reflect a thorough understanding of the Pure Hobbit World as well as the Lord of the Rings World. Make sense? Regards.
I have a whole shelf of Tolkien books (both his fiction and historical resources) and RPGs and, while I don't really think of myself as a "Tolkien scholar," have spent quite a bit of time over the decades thinking about Tolkien stuff. (My biggest problem is that I read these books but don't retain a lot long-term, so each trip back seems almost new.) Some other threads got me down the rabbit-hole of The History of the Hobbit and I remember some discussion about the various editions.
I know that 1E of TOR (The One Ring RPG) had a focus on the Hobbit era and had maps and such for the Wilderlands area around the Lonely Mountain, also that the new 2E of TOR hits the same timeframe only is centered around the Shire. Both of these RPGs would seem to be valuable resources.
Some threads here (by geoffrey , I think?) deal with the 1937 Hobbit, compared to the current one. That may tie in here as well.
Anyone have thoughts on this?
Turns out that I am also currently reading book one of The History of the Hobbit, which led me to search for stuff like this. Fundamentally, I'm curious if Falconer did anything more with this, or if others have tried to put together a Hobbit-era campaign.
I just wanted to note that originally the idea of this project was to exclude The Lord of the Rings entirely, and just take The Hobbit on its own basis. While that was an interesting idea in theory, in practice it didn't really seem like anyone would actually run a campaign where there was absolutely no influence from the LR. So I have quietly dropped the LR ban.
My own campaign will indeed be very much a "Northern" campaign, taking a conscious effort to be as much based on the H as on the LR. The standard understanding nowadays seems to be that LR is canon and H is of dubious authority, trusted only when it fits in to LR's world-view. I am taking the opposite approach.
That means the campaign is characterized by H's sense of free-wheeling episodic adventure (within larger quests), its Icelandic/Germanic character (Mirkwood! Dwarves!), and its more free approach to monsters and magic (remember Stone Giants? talking ravens? enchanted streams, elfin circles, Gandalf whizz-bang spells, skin-changers, magic glowing swords in the secret hoards of trolls who turn to stone in the sunlight...) while not ruling out any of the multitude of coolness revealed by LR.
On the other hand, having read the first volume of The History of The Hobbit, I have to say it's FASCINATING, especially if you're a First Age buff like me. Basically, Rateliff makes a very good case that H as written actually takes place at the end of the First Age! Remember H was written before The Lost Road introduced Númenor, and long before LR introduced the history of the Rings, which factors led Tolkien to create millenia of history between the First Age and H. But consider the internal evidence between The Silmarillion as it stood in the 30's (volumes IV and V of The History of Middle-earth) and H:
[*]There is a forest in S called Taur-na-Fuin which is also known as Mirkwood.
[*]In S, after being defeated by Huan and Lúthien, Thû the Necromancer (also known later as Sauron) flees and takes up his abode in Taur-na-Fuin, a.k.a. Mirkwood, which is where we find him in H.
[*]According to S, Elrond choose the fate of Men, and indeed H represents Elrond as a Man, not an Elf. H is therefore within one Mannish lifetime of S.
[*]When Gandalf and Thorin brandish their Swords of Gondolin, the goblins all immediately recognize and name them. Clearly their memory is fresh!
[*]In S there are two kinds of dwarves: the Nauglath (stunted folk) and the Indrafangs (longbeards). All rather mercenary and taking neither the gnomes' nor Melkor's side in the wars.
[*]In fact, in S the dwarves quarrel with some elves over some treasure and raid their their cavern headquarters in their forest.
[*]In H, Thorin is lord of "one of the two races of dwarves, the Longbeards".
[*]Thorin is captured by some elves (who have cavern headquarters in a forest) because of their past wars (though Tolkien tries to give Thorin a free pass by saying it was "only the other dwarves" who had been involved!)
[*]And, in fact, the dwarves and elves near the end of H almost begin warring over treasure!
[*]In S, the two dwarven races inhabit two different mansions in Beleriand known as Belegost (mighty-fortress) and Nogrod (dwarf-cave). Though originally the Longbeards were from Belegost and the treacherous smith Telchar was from Nogrod, Tolkien later switched them, and added a translation in the dwarven language of Nogrod/dwarf-cave: Khazaddum. Neat, huh?
So, basically I'd like to continue research on understanding H in its own (pre-LR) context, and let any final writeups reflect a thorough understanding of the Pure Hobbit World as well as the Lord of the Rings World. Make sense? Regards.
I have a whole shelf of Tolkien books (both his fiction and historical resources) and RPGs and, while I don't really think of myself as a "Tolkien scholar," have spent quite a bit of time over the decades thinking about Tolkien stuff. (My biggest problem is that I read these books but don't retain a lot long-term, so each trip back seems almost new.) Some other threads got me down the rabbit-hole of The History of the Hobbit and I remember some discussion about the various editions.
I know that 1E of TOR (The One Ring RPG) had a focus on the Hobbit era and had maps and such for the Wilderlands area around the Lonely Mountain, also that the new 2E of TOR hits the same timeframe only is centered around the Shire. Both of these RPGs would seem to be valuable resources.
Some threads here (by geoffrey , I think?) deal with the 1937 Hobbit, compared to the current one. That may tie in here as well.
Anyone have thoughts on this?
