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Post by tdenmark on Sept 17, 2022 1:34:44 GMT -6
Heck, even The Hobbit looks like a masterpiece in comparison!
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Post by Finarvyn on Sept 17, 2022 6:45:26 GMT -6
Sorry that so many don't like Rings of Power. My family and I are enjoying it and we're having a great time getting together every Friday to have dinner and watch the new episode together.
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Post by Deleted on Sept 17, 2022 9:00:16 GMT -6
I think I'd enjoy it a lot less if I came at it from a Tolkien purist perspective or as someone expecting the quality of the LOTR films. IMO it's not really fair to compare anything else fantasy related to either of those media collections. They're simply the pinnacle. The first four seasons of Game of Thrones was close, but not quite, and they really fumbled the latter half of that to the extent I'm reluctant to check out House of the Dragon, though I'm sure I'll relent eventually.
I have to admit I didn't enjoy episodes 3 and 4 of "Rings of Power" as much as the two debut episodes, but it's not really a huge letdown or anything. I'm just not seeing as much of the story thread that fascinates me most as I'd like to. I'm a big fan of the Meteor Man/Stranger.
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Post by Deleted on Sept 18, 2022 11:57:26 GMT -6
The Orcs in this IMO are among the strongest things it has to offer:
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Post by tkdco2 on Sept 18, 2022 14:59:23 GMT -6
Someone I spoke to said the show would be more enjoyable if you don't think too much about it and see it as an adaptation. Don't worry too much about how they play fast and loose about the lore; admittedly, that's easier said than done, and not just for Tolkien fans. One of my sisters wasn't too happy about a modern reimagining of Jane Austen's Persuasion.
Look at it instead as a generic fantasy world or as the producer's D&D campaign set in Middle-earth. That may help you get through it more easily.
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Post by retrorob on Sept 18, 2022 15:51:02 GMT -6
Sorry that so many don't like Rings of Power. My family and I are enjoying it and we're having a great time getting together every Friday to have dinner and watch the new episode together. I am with you. I've really enjoyed episodes 1-4 and looking forward to the next one. There is much more Middle-Earth in this series than in Jackson's trilogy (I'm not a big fan of the latter btw).
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Post by retrorob on Sept 18, 2022 16:05:27 GMT -6
Remember how you went to see Fellowship of the Ring at the theater with apprehension about how badly they'd mangle the story and characters, and came out pleasantly surprised at how good it was? Yeah, Rings of Power is the opposite of that. I remember that back in 2001 I left the theater rather disappointed, and the first movie was the best one. For me Jackson's trilogy failed to convey the Middle-Earth atmosphere. "The Hobbit" was a disaster and I really regret watching it, but it unfortunately can't be undone. Ironically, "Rings of Power" are more Tolkienesque, even though not always faithful to the books.
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Post by Deleted on Sept 18, 2022 16:20:41 GMT -6
As long as we all agree that Ralph Bakshi had the best adaptation of all then we can be friends.
MY Aragorn is certainly a Native American man who never wears pants.
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Post by tdenmark on Sept 18, 2022 18:00:54 GMT -6
I remember that back in 2001 I left the theater rather disappointed, and the first movie was the best one. For me Jackson's trilogy failed to convey the Middle-Earth atmosphere. "The Hobbit" was a disaster and I really regret watching it, but it unfortunately can't be undone. Ironically, "Rings of Power" are more Tolkienesque, even though not always faithful to the books.
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Post by Falconer on Sept 18, 2022 20:47:56 GMT -6
I *was* devastated by the FotR movie, and it *was* all downhill from there IMO. I didn’t bother to see the Hobbit movies, and have no inclination to watch this show. But I would be interested to hear ways in which it is more Tolkienesque than the PJ stuff.
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Post by tkdco2 on Sept 19, 2022 0:05:42 GMT -6
At least the Peter Jackson films and the new show are nothing like John Boorman's vision. That has to count for something.
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Post by tdenmark on Sept 19, 2022 1:31:42 GMT -6
That's a pretty strong reaction. I can't imagine a better translation to film than what PJ and his team did. We'll never see the likes of that again as all the film studios have embraced an ideology that is antithetical to Tolkien and his work, and that kind of storytelling in general. I could see an independent animation studio taking inspiration from Tolkien's hand drawn art and making an entire Middle-Earth series with that look. Which I'd like to see. Probably won't happen until his works are in the public domain.
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Post by Mushgnome on Sept 19, 2022 8:01:13 GMT -6
I'm team Rankin-Bass. ("Where there's a whip/there's a way")
I enjoyed the Peter Jackson films at the time when they came out, but in my opinion they haven't aged well. There's something kind of cloying and emotionally manipulative about them.
A specific example is Thorin's death scene. The PJ version of this scene feels hammy and overacted to me, compared to the RB version.
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Post by robertsconley on Sept 19, 2022 13:19:24 GMT -6
Sorry that so many don't like Rings of Power. My family and I are enjoying it and we're having a great time getting together every Friday to have dinner and watch the new episode together. You are not alone, I am enjoying it as well. It is not a 100% perfect, but having re-read the Second Age material I think it is a fair adaptation. The biggest issue I have seen so far was the slow start compared to House of the Dragon. For me, episode 3 laid enough of the threads on the table to see the bigger picture of where they are going and I am in for the ride. At this point, I say remember that Shakespeare is bad history but was entertaining drama. That Babylon 5 started slow and had a lackluster Season One then we got Season 2, 3, and 4.
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Post by geoffrey on Sept 19, 2022 16:29:01 GMT -6
I could see an independent animation studio taking inspiration from Tolkien's hand drawn art and making an entire Middle-Earth series with that look. Which I'd like to see. That would be wonderful.
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Post by geoffrey on Sept 19, 2022 16:32:16 GMT -6
I enjoyed the Peter Jackson films at the time when they came out, but in my opinion they haven't aged well. I enjoyed each of the Lord of the Rings films in the theater, but I loathed the three Hobbit films. I no longer enjoy the Two Towers and the Return of the King films, but I still enjoy Peter Jackson's Fellowship of the Ring movie (theatrical version).
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Post by Deleted on Sept 19, 2022 16:51:47 GMT -6
As far as live-action adaptations go, the PJ films pale in comparison to this absolute masterpiece:
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Post by tdenmark on Sept 20, 2022 1:33:10 GMT -6
I enjoyed the Peter Jackson films at the time when they came out, but in my opinion they haven't aged well. I enjoyed each of the Lord of the Rings films in the theater, but I loathed the three Hobbit films. I no longer enjoy the Two Towers and the Return of the King films, but I still enjoy Peter Jackson's Fellowship of the Ring movie (theatrical version). I love love PJ's LotR movies, they just get better with time. I didn't care much for The Hobbit, but it has grown on me over the years. There was an edit that a professional film editor made called "The Tolkien Edit" that gets rid of the nonsense and hews closer to the book which I find to be really good. That same editor took all "The investigation of Dol Guldor" portions out and made them into their own short movie. While jarring, unnecessary, and out of place when they were in The Hobbit, on their own it makes a decently entertaining film. You can find out more about it here: tolkieneditor.wordpress.com/
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Post by Vile Traveller on Sept 20, 2022 2:47:51 GMT -6
I could see an independent animation studio taking inspiration from Tolkien's hand drawn art and making an entire Middle-Earth series with that look. As far as visual adaptions are concerned, my favourite is still the comic version illustrated by David Wenzel. That's something I would like to see animated. I do like the Peter Jackson imagery, though his films went a bit awry for me at times and he changed some characters to their detriment, IMO.
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Post by waysoftheearth on Sept 20, 2022 4:56:25 GMT -6
I didn't care much for The Hobbit, but it has grown on me over the years. There was an edit that a professional film editor made called "The Tolkien Edit" that gets rid of the nonsense and hews closer to the book which I find to be really good. ... You can find out more about it here: tolkieneditor.wordpress.com/Tempting... or tempting fate? Not sure which
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Post by tdenmark on Sept 20, 2022 11:56:02 GMT -6
I didn't care much for The Hobbit, but it has grown on me over the years. There was an edit that a professional film editor made called "The Tolkien Edit" that gets rid of the nonsense and hews closer to the book which I find to be really good. ... You can find out more about it here: tolkieneditor.wordpress.com/Tempting... or tempting fate? Not sure which I was careful not to link to the actual video, as that kind of thing is discouraged here.
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Post by tkdco2 on Sept 21, 2022 12:59:05 GMT -6
Here's a video about the making of the Hobbit films and why Del Toro left:
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Post by Deleted on Sept 21, 2022 16:53:43 GMT -6
Every time Guillermo Del Toro has a project cancelled, an angel loses its wings. (Honestly I love all his work and it really is a tragedy he wasn't ultimately attached to the Hobbit.)
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Post by tdenmark on Sept 21, 2022 17:59:49 GMT -6
Every time Guillermo Del Toro has a project cancelled, an angel loses its wings. (Honestly I love all his work and it really is a tragedy he wasn't ultimately attached to the Hobbit.) As much as I like PJ's Hobbit, and how unfairly maligned it is, I really was looking forward to a GDT directed Hobbit, he's almost a perfect match for it. It would have been a beautiful artistic interpretation, likely more closely aligned to the book than PJ's attempt to turn it into LotR (which I'm sure the studio forced on him).
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Post by tdenmark on Sept 21, 2022 18:04:17 GMT -6
I'm team Rankin-Bass. ("Where there's a whip/there's a way") Yep, that song is definitely the best thing about that adaptation.
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Post by tkdco2 on Sept 21, 2022 19:23:26 GMT -6
Every time Guillermo Del Toro has a project cancelled, an angel loses its wings. (Honestly I love all his work and it really is a tragedy he wasn't ultimately attached to the Hobbit.) As much as I like PJ's Hobbit, and how unfairly maligned it is, I really was looking forward to a GDT directed Hobbit, he's almost a perfect match for it. It would have been a beautiful artistic interpretation, likely more closely aligned to the book than PJ's attempt to turn it into LotR (which I'm sure the studio forced on him). Jackson's LOTR was a labor of love. The Hobbit, not so much, and it shows.
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Post by tdenmark on Sept 21, 2022 22:05:30 GMT -6
As much as I like PJ's Hobbit, and how unfairly maligned it is, I really was looking forward to a GDT directed Hobbit, he's almost a perfect match for it. It would have been a beautiful artistic interpretation, likely more closely aligned to the book than PJ's attempt to turn it into LotR (which I'm sure the studio forced on him). Jackson's LOTR was a labor of love. The Hobbit, not so much, and it shows. To be fair to PJ and crew, Guillermo Del Toro dropped out and the studio gave a very short deadline to shoot the film and they had to rush to put it together. If they'd given PJ even just another year or two for preproduction it would have been vastly better. I still like it though, it is miles better than most stuff being made these days.
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Post by Mushgnome on Sept 22, 2022 9:52:53 GMT -6
Interestingly the Rankin-Bass adaptation had a similar trajectory to the PJ/GdT films: Rankin Bass "The Hobbit" is quite lovely (in my opinion) but their "Return of the King" adaptation has some production issues and legal challenges. From what I understand, it was a rush-job to capitalize on Ralph Bakshi's failed trilogy. But the songs are dope! "Where There's a Whip, There's a Way" is the same vocalist (Thurl Ravenscroft) as "You're a Mean One, Mr. Grinch."
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Post by rredmond on Sept 22, 2022 11:28:16 GMT -6
Ooo, that's a cool bit of trivia!
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Post by Deleted on Sept 22, 2022 16:48:25 GMT -6
Bakshi never fails. Just check this out. You'll never exert the amount of cool confidence my boy Elrond here has, sitting on a chair on top of the table with the full man-sprawl going.
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