Post by Deleted on Jan 18, 2022 9:26:02 GMT -6
Split from Adventuring in Mordor after Sauron's defeat? thread.
Look, I'm by no means specialist in Middle Earth.
I've had read only the books 1 and less than half the book 2 of LotR, and I've read The Hobbit. That's all.
I didn't read The Silmarillion or any other books that could gave me deeper understanding of Middle Earth and the Tolkien Settings.
But, my understanding based on what I've read is that although Sauron was defeated, he wasn't necessarily destroyed.
I've talked about it before but the guys that (supposedly) have deep understanding about Tolkien's work have said that's not the case and once the ring was destroyed, Sauron was destroyed. I can't see how those experts can be right though, because what is written in the few pages I've read, points to something else.
Look, that's on Chapter 1 on the Fellowship book: (I don't know which page though because I don't have the books with me anymore, and I just searched it on a plain text file)
Let me quote again some things:
The One Ring apparently would give Sauron MORE power and knowledge, doesn't mean he didn't had it without the One Ring.
Sauron himself believed the One Ring was destroyed, this means that he CAN live without the One Ring. Or else this passage wouldn't makes sense, if the One Ring was destroyed as he believed, how could he "be" to believe or not in something for starters? Sauron is not the One Ring, and the One Ring is not Sauron.
Sauron was once "defeated thoroughly" (vanquished), still "his spirit fled", and he lived.
Gandalf died fighting Durin's Bane... Even on the Wikipedia entry for Balrogs It's said that "Gandalf himself died shortly afterwards, but he returned to Middle-earth with greater powers, as Gandalf the White".
In the Maiar wikipedia entry also confirms that Maiar can die and come back.
So, even though the One Ring was destroyed, Sauron being a Maiar, he can yet come back. Even if he can't have yet again a body because the ring was destroyed (that's unclear though), he's spirt can still come back. That's my understanding and interpretation based on what is written, as I've quoted, and based on what is written on the Wikipedia entry for Balrog and Maiar.
So, you can for sure have adventures on Mordor after the ring's destruction, because not only as you've said the corruption still in there, but Sauron's spirit or even maybe Sauron himself can/could have come back to influence Mordor.
Again, specialists on Middle Earth and Tolkien's work sometimes will show up to refute this interpretation, but personally I don't care, that's what is written and you can create your own "Canon" by not selecting any works that supposedly would refute what is written in The Fellowship of The Ring.
Look, I'm by no means specialist in Middle Earth.
I've had read only the books 1 and less than half the book 2 of LotR, and I've read The Hobbit. That's all.
I didn't read The Silmarillion or any other books that could gave me deeper understanding of Middle Earth and the Tolkien Settings.
But, my understanding based on what I've read is that although Sauron was defeated, he wasn't necessarily destroyed.
I've talked about it before but the guys that (supposedly) have deep understanding about Tolkien's work have said that's not the case and once the ring was destroyed, Sauron was destroyed. I can't see how those experts can be right though, because what is written in the few pages I've read, points to something else.
Look, that's on Chapter 1 on the Fellowship book: (I don't know which page though because I don't have the books with me anymore, and I just searched it on a plain text file)
'The Enemy still lacks one thing to give him strength and knowledge to beat down all resistance, break the last defences, and cover all the lands in a second darkness. He lacks the One Ring.
'The Three, fairest of all, the Elf-lords hid from him, and his hand never touched them or sullied them. Seven the Dwarf-kings possessed, but three he has recovered, and the others the dragons have consumed. Nine he gave to Mortal Men, proud and great, and so ensnared them. Long ago they fell under the dominion of the One, and they became Ringwraiths, shadows under his great Shadow, his most terrible servants. Long ago. It is many a year since the Nine walked abroad. Yet who knows? As the Shadow grows once more, they too may walk again. But come! We will not speak of such things even in the morning of the Shire.
'So it is now: the Nine he has gathered to himself; the Seven also, or else they are destroyed. The Three are hidden still. But that no longer troubles him. He only needs the One; for he made that Ring himself, it is his, and he let a great part of his own former power pass into it, so that he could rule all the others. If he recovers it, then he will command them all again, wherever they be, even the Three, and all that has been wrought with them will be laid bare, and he will be stronger than ever.
'And this is the dreadful chance, Frodo. He believed that the One had perished; that the Elves had destroyed it, as should have been done. But he knows now that it has _not_ perished, that it has been found. So he is seeking it, seeking it, and all his thought is bent on it. It is his great hope and our great fear.'
'Why, why wasn't it destroyed?' cried Frodo. 'And how did the Enemy ever come to lose it, if he was so strong, and it was so precious to him?' He clutched the Ring in his hand, as if he saw already dark fingers stretching out to seize it.
'It was taken from him,' said Gandalf. 'The strength of the Elves to resist him was greater long ago; and not all Men were estranged from them. The Men of Westernesse came to their aid. That is a chapter of ancient history which it might be good to recall; for there was sorrow then too, and gathering dark, but great valour, and great deeds that were not wholly vain. One day, perhaps, I will tell you all the tale, or you shall hear it told in full by one who knows it best.
'But for the moment, since most of all you need to know how this thing came to you, and that will be tale enough, this is all that I will say. It was Gil-galad, Elven-king and Elendil of Westernesse who overthrew Sauron, though they themselves perished in the deed; and Isildur Elendil's son cut the Ring from Sauron's hand and took it for his own. Then Sauron was vanquished and his spirit fled and was hidden for long years, until his shadow took shape again in Mirkwood.
'The Three, fairest of all, the Elf-lords hid from him, and his hand never touched them or sullied them. Seven the Dwarf-kings possessed, but three he has recovered, and the others the dragons have consumed. Nine he gave to Mortal Men, proud and great, and so ensnared them. Long ago they fell under the dominion of the One, and they became Ringwraiths, shadows under his great Shadow, his most terrible servants. Long ago. It is many a year since the Nine walked abroad. Yet who knows? As the Shadow grows once more, they too may walk again. But come! We will not speak of such things even in the morning of the Shire.
'So it is now: the Nine he has gathered to himself; the Seven also, or else they are destroyed. The Three are hidden still. But that no longer troubles him. He only needs the One; for he made that Ring himself, it is his, and he let a great part of his own former power pass into it, so that he could rule all the others. If he recovers it, then he will command them all again, wherever they be, even the Three, and all that has been wrought with them will be laid bare, and he will be stronger than ever.
'And this is the dreadful chance, Frodo. He believed that the One had perished; that the Elves had destroyed it, as should have been done. But he knows now that it has _not_ perished, that it has been found. So he is seeking it, seeking it, and all his thought is bent on it. It is his great hope and our great fear.'
'Why, why wasn't it destroyed?' cried Frodo. 'And how did the Enemy ever come to lose it, if he was so strong, and it was so precious to him?' He clutched the Ring in his hand, as if he saw already dark fingers stretching out to seize it.
'It was taken from him,' said Gandalf. 'The strength of the Elves to resist him was greater long ago; and not all Men were estranged from them. The Men of Westernesse came to their aid. That is a chapter of ancient history which it might be good to recall; for there was sorrow then too, and gathering dark, but great valour, and great deeds that were not wholly vain. One day, perhaps, I will tell you all the tale, or you shall hear it told in full by one who knows it best.
'But for the moment, since most of all you need to know how this thing came to you, and that will be tale enough, this is all that I will say. It was Gil-galad, Elven-king and Elendil of Westernesse who overthrew Sauron, though they themselves perished in the deed; and Isildur Elendil's son cut the Ring from Sauron's hand and took it for his own. Then Sauron was vanquished and his spirit fled and was hidden for long years, until his shadow took shape again in Mirkwood.
Let me quote again some things:
'The Enemy still lacks one thing to give him strength and knowledge to beat down all resistance, break the last defences, and cover all the lands in a second darkness. He lacks the One Ring.
The One Ring apparently would give Sauron MORE power and knowledge, doesn't mean he didn't had it without the One Ring.
He believed that the One had perished; that the Elves had destroyed it, as should have been done. But he knows now that it has _not_ perished, that it has been found.
Sauron himself believed the One Ring was destroyed, this means that he CAN live without the One Ring. Or else this passage wouldn't makes sense, if the One Ring was destroyed as he believed, how could he "be" to believe or not in something for starters? Sauron is not the One Ring, and the One Ring is not Sauron.
Then Sauron was vanquished and his spirit fled and was hidden for long years, until his shadow took shape again in Mirkwood.
Sauron was once "defeated thoroughly" (vanquished), still "his spirit fled", and he lived.
Gandalf died fighting Durin's Bane... Even on the Wikipedia entry for Balrogs It's said that "Gandalf himself died shortly afterwards, but he returned to Middle-earth with greater powers, as Gandalf the White".
In the Maiar wikipedia entry also confirms that Maiar can die and come back.
So, even though the One Ring was destroyed, Sauron being a Maiar, he can yet come back. Even if he can't have yet again a body because the ring was destroyed (that's unclear though), he's spirt can still come back. That's my understanding and interpretation based on what is written, as I've quoted, and based on what is written on the Wikipedia entry for Balrog and Maiar.
So, you can for sure have adventures on Mordor after the ring's destruction, because not only as you've said the corruption still in there, but Sauron's spirit or even maybe Sauron himself can/could have come back to influence Mordor.
Again, specialists on Middle Earth and Tolkien's work sometimes will show up to refute this interpretation, but personally I don't care, that's what is written and you can create your own "Canon" by not selecting any works that supposedly would refute what is written in The Fellowship of The Ring.