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Post by Finarvyn on Dec 30, 2021 20:58:14 GMT -6
Geoffrey did a great job of making a trimmed-down Appendix N in this thread: odd74.proboards.com/thread/14779/version-garys-appendixWhat I would like to do is to give my son a list of no more than 5 short stories where I can say, "if you read these you will understand the fiction that I read." I would prefer not to have more than one from a single author, but however the list turns out is fine with me. I figure that this list HAS to start with Robert E Howard, and has to include a Fafhrd & Grey Mouser story. Not 100% sure what would fill up the remaining three slots, but I thought it might be a fun topic of conversation here.  So here's a start of a list: (1) "Red Nails" by Robert E Howard (2) "Two Sought Adventure" by Fritz Leiber (3) "The Dreaming City" by Michael Moorcock (maybe?) (4) ?? (5) ?? So, help me out!  |
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Post by howandwhy99 on Dec 31, 2021 2:53:41 GMT -6
That's a really tough ask.
I would suggest Howard's "The Tower of the Elephant" or "The Phoenix on the Sword" first.
Definitely agree with Lieber.
Maybe "Stormbringer" for Moorcock.
Would suggest: "The Hobbit" and "The Eyes of the Overworld" if he has not already read them. I feel Vance should really be read aloud for several pages first, like good prose, to grasp the appeal.
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Post by rsdean on Dec 31, 2021 6:05:45 GMT -6
Well, if you want to keep to short stories (which I assume means that this might be more than a theoretical exercise), Tolkien is out. Looking over the other thread, something of C.L. Moore’s Jirel of Joiry could be there, though I put it back on the shelf after pulling it out for a reread last summer, so I’m not sure which.
Something Clark Ashton Smith? “The Seven Geases”?
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Post by tetramorph on Dec 31, 2021 8:12:15 GMT -6
Tolkien: Farmer Giles of Ham.
For Leiber, I would recommend Jewels in the Forest rather than Two Sought Adventure.
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Post by Finarvyn on Dec 31, 2021 13:27:58 GMT -6
Tolkien: Farmer Giles of Ham. Excellent suggestion! Fun and adventurous and a great read! For Leiber, I would recommend Jewels in the Forest rather than Two Sought Adventure. Um ... aren't those two names for the same story? Maybe you are messing with me?  |
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Post by tetramorph on Dec 31, 2021 15:00:15 GMT -6
Well, Two Sought is the compilation in which Jewels appears.
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Post by geoffrey on Dec 31, 2021 15:03:09 GMT -6
Excellent choices so far, Fin. I would definitely keep Moorcock's "The Dreaming City". Here's my vote for the next one: (4) "Mazirian the Magician" by Jack Vance (found in The Dying Earth) |
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Post by geoffrey on Dec 31, 2021 15:07:27 GMT -6
Everyone is right: 1. "Two Sought Adventure" (a short story) was originally published in 1939. 2. "Two Sought Adventure" (a short story) was renamed "The Jewels in the Forest" and included in Two Sought Adventure (a collection of short stories) in 1957. |
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Post by geoffrey on Dec 31, 2021 15:11:22 GMT -6
My suggestion for your last slot:
(5) "The Call of Cthulhu" by H. P. Lovecraft
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Post by tdenmark on Dec 31, 2021 15:34:28 GMT -6
As much as I love A Princess of Mars, the sequel Gods of Mars is much more of a D&D adventure.
Problem is, it is a much better book if you've first read APoM. So it is hard to recommend it on its own.
You could think of the first 3 as one complete story, they make a nice little trilogy on their own. These days you can get the first 5 in one nice deluxe hardcover tome.
ERB's Mars books are essential to understanding OD&D though.
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Post by Finarvyn on Jan 1, 2022 8:20:02 GMT -6
Some of my friends have suggested that "Tower of the Elephant" might replace "Red Nails" as a Conan story. Considering this. Also, as a non-Conan story, the REH Solomon Kane story "Red Shadows" could be a good choice. Not sure if I would have 2/5 of the list REH or if the SK story might replace the Conan story. This is a tough list! As much as I love A Princess of Mars, the sequel Gods of Mars is much more of a D&D adventure. Problem is, it is a much better book if you've first read APoM. So it is hard to recommend it on its own. You could think of the first 3 as one complete story, they make a nice little trilogy on their own. These days you can get the first 5 in one nice deluxe hardcover tome. ERB's Mars books are essential to understanding OD&D though. I would add APoM since ERB was one of my biggest influences back in the day, but it doesn't fit my "short story" requirement. It is a fast read for a novel, but not a short story. I eliminated Nine Princes in Amber for the same reason, but might include a Dilvish short story to get Zelazny on my list. |
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Post by retrorob on Jan 1, 2022 10:02:13 GMT -6
Do we need to stick to the Appendix N authors list, that doesn't cover Wagner, CAS, Le Guin, Kuttner, and from Howard only Conan is mentioned?
If Finarvyn has to trim Appendix N down to just 5 short stories, the list has to contain some Howard, Leiber, Moorcock and Vance. Perhaps the 5th should be "Three hears and three lions" (the 1st edition is a novella) or "Call of Cthulhu" like Geoffrey suggested.
Personally, I would drop Leiber and Moorcock, as much as I understand and recognize the impact of early Fafhrd/Grey Mouser & Elric stories.
1. Howard - Red Nails
2. Howard - Beyond the Black River
3. Howard - The Valley of the Worm
4. Wagner - Cold Light
5. Wagner - Reflections for the Winter of My Soul
But if I were to choose 5 authors...
1. Howard - The Valley of the Worm (no Conan!)
2. Wagner - Reflections for the Winter of My Soul
3. Vance - some Dying Earth story, perhaps Mazirian or Liane
4. Anderson - 3H&3L
5. Leiber or Moorcock - hard to decide, I have to re-read them both in English. "The Dreaming City" is the only Elric story that I remember, so it speaks for itself. From Leiber "Two Sought Adventure" was nice.
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Post by geoffrey on Jan 1, 2022 10:51:02 GMT -6
I would stick with "Red Nails" for the Howard story. It has much more blood and thunder than "The Tower of the Elephant". |
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Post by tdenmark on Jan 1, 2022 13:00:59 GMT -6
I would add APoM since ERB was one of my biggest influences back in the day, but it doesn't fit my "short story" requirement. It is a fast read for a novel, but not a short story. APoM is 67389 words, practically a novella by today's standards, but I agree it is just a bit longer than a short story. It sure reads like one though. GoM and WoM read even faster. |
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Post by tombowings on Jan 1, 2022 23:19:46 GMT -6
I would stick with "Red Nails" for the Howard story. It has much more blood and thunder than "The Tower of the Elephant". The older I get, however, the more I realize that "blood and thunder" is a much poorer description of D&D than "daggers in the dark". |
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Post by Deleted on Jan 22, 2022 16:52:31 GMT -6
I like Tower of the Elephant in that you can sit down and breeze through the entire thing in less than a half hour and confidently say you're familiar with Conan and his tropes.
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Post by doublejig2 on Jan 22, 2022 17:47:18 GMT -6
Well, if you want to keep to short stories (which I assume means that this might be more than a theoretical exercise), Tolkien is out. Looking over the other thread, something of C.L. Moore’s Jirel of Joiry could be there, though I put it back on the shelf after pulling it out for a reread last summer, so I’m not sure which. Something Clark Ashton Smith? “The Seven Geases”? CA Smith? Why not just permanently disturb the reader, taking aim at his vaunted vanity; i.e., have him read, The Dweller in the Gulf?  |
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Post by Falconer on Jan 24, 2022 1:09:38 GMT -6
Five short stories:
1. The Tower of the Elephant
2. Red Nails
3. The Nameless City (HPL)
4. A Weird Occurrence in Odd Alley (EGG)
5. Something from The Dying Earth for sure, but hard to decide at the moment, I am due for a re-read!
Now looking at my bookshelf there are some super-slender paperback novels I would love to pick five of:
The Incomplete Enchanter
The Silver Chair
Smith of Wootten Major & Farmer Giles of Ham
A Princess of Mars
Myths of the Norsemen (Roger Lancelyn Green)
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Post by stevemitchell on Jan 24, 2022 12:43:03 GMT -6
Well, heck, for super-slender paperback novels, let's add:
Sea-Kings of Mars (The Sword of Rhiannon) by Leigh Brackett
The Dark World by Henry Kuttner
Far Away & Never by Ramsey Campbell
And probably the best Ultra Hard-Core Appendix N series ever published: the three volumes of Echoes of Valor edited by Karl Edward Wagner.
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Post by cadriel on Jan 25, 2022 10:12:41 GMT -6
Honestly I think a lot of the stories I'd pick from are in the Appendix N anthology edited by Peter Bebergal. I think it picked the wrong Clark Ashton Smith entry ("The Tale of Satampra Zeiros" is a perfect D&D story), and "The Valor of Cappen Vara" (in de Camp's important anthology Swords and Sorcery) is a better Anderson pick, but it hits a lot of my points.
I do think that adding in Jirel of Joiry is the best thing an Appendix N update can do, and I think "Black God's Kiss" is the best of that cycle by a long shot. The value of "Tower of the Elephant" and "Jewels in the Forest" to the D&D feel is all too obvious. Ramsey Campbell's Ryre often gets overlooked as a dark fantasy pick, so I'd include that and "Satampra Zeiros" if I had to narrow it to five. It's a shame to lose Moorcock and Vance, and I'd probably go with this as a perfect ten:
1. "The Tower of the Elephant", R.E. Howard
2. "Black God's Kiss", C.L. Moore
3. "Jewels in the Forest", Fritz Leiber
4. "The Tale of Satampra Zeiros", Clark Ashton Smith
5. "The Pit of Wings," Ramsey Campbell
6. "The Dreaming City", Michael Moorcock
7. "Turjan of Miir", Jack Vance
8. "The Man who Sold Rope to the Gnoles", Margaret St. Clair
9. "The Valor of Cappen Vara", Poul Anderson
10. "The Doom that Came to Sarnath", H.P. Lovecraft
If we're looking at thin novels, I think there are a few overlooked ones that I'd want to sneak in. Nifft the Lean by Michael Shea, Gate of Ivrel by C.J. Cherryh, and Jhereg by Steven Brust are a few that might have escaped enough attention.
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Post by Finarvyn on Jan 29, 2022 5:52:44 GMT -6
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Post by stevemitchell on Jan 29, 2022 14:54:20 GMT -6
I have been going to my current doctor for 15 years. We have never talked about our respective reading habits before--no real need to in health-related sessions. But on my last visit, I was wearing the Cthulhu pandemic mask which my wife had given me as a present. To my surprise, the doctor recognized Cthulhu and made a comment about Lovecraft. A short discussion followed; he told me he was a Lovecraft fan, had books from Arkham House, and was also a Howard fan. I admitted my own Howard enthusiasm, but told him I preferred Solomon Kane to Conan as a character. And he laughed and said he felt exactly the same. My estimation of him, already quite high, went up even further!
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