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Post by jeffb on Oct 7, 2021 19:09:44 GMT -6
So got another email from The Trolls about a new book release- Gods & Legends. Of Gods & Monsters was the original C&C "Deities & Demigods" and was penned by Jim Ward. If you liked D&DG, or L&L for AD&D, you would probably enjoy OG&M, but it's been out of print for a few years. New book looks to be very much the same product, but Mr. Ward is not mentioned as author. Gods & Legendsthegreyelf Jason are you able to shed any light on this? How does it differ from OG&M? (if it does). Anyone else purchased it/backed it?? (assuming it was a KS?) |
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Post by tdenmark on Oct 8, 2021 1:52:34 GMT -6
Troll Lord's Codex Nordica and Codex Germanica are some of my favorite Legends and Lore style books in my library. They are essential resources to my ongoing Norse Mythology campaign. www.trolllord.com/tlgstore/#!/Castles-&-Crusades-Codex-Nordica/p/45154064/category=13376129 |
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Post by thegreyelf on Oct 8, 2021 6:07:32 GMT -6
I haven't even seen the manuscript for this, but as I understand it, this was a top-to-bottom rewrite, not a new printing or second edition. And I THINK that Davis wrote it, not Jim. I could be wrong, though.
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Post by jeffb on Oct 8, 2021 6:35:53 GMT -6
Ok, this will go on my "wish list" for the Holiday sales when I load up. Thanks thegreyelftdenmark, have you picked up the Egyptian Codex book? It seems to get mixed reviews- great for actual history, not so great for an actual gaming product for a FRPG. |
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Post by Deleted on Oct 8, 2021 8:02:42 GMT -6
Tangential, but is the Castle Keepers Guide out of print again?
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Post by jeffb on Oct 8, 2021 8:20:33 GMT -6
Tangential, but is the Castle Keepers Guide out of print again? No, in fact the new 3rd printing just came out a few weeks back. Jump down a few threads (of course the thread goes way off in new directions as I lose focus, but  ) |
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Post by Deleted on Oct 8, 2021 8:26:31 GMT -6
Got it. One more tangent here then I promise I am done.
Wouldn't C&C discussion more properly belong in either Simulacrum Games or Other Editions and not General?
I know it inhabitants a weird space all its own.
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Post by jeffb on Oct 8, 2021 8:50:37 GMT -6
Got it. One more tangent here then I promise I am done. Wouldn't C&C discussion more properly belong in either Simulacrum Games or Other Editions and not General? I know it inhabitants a weird space all its own. was briefly discussing this in another thread. When asked, my recommendation was a new sub forum, but IDK where Fin is at with that decision. C&C and 13th Age are not Simulacrums of an older edition, nor are they New editions. They occupy their own design space like DCC RPG. |
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Post by Deleted on Oct 8, 2021 8:58:43 GMT -6
Got it. One more tangent here then I promise I am done. Wouldn't C&C discussion more properly belong in either Simulacrum Games or Other Editions and not General? I know it inhabitants a weird space all its own. was briefly discussing this in another thread. When asked, my recommendation was a new sub forum, but IDK where Fin is at with that decision. C&C and 13th Age are not Simulacrums of an older edition, nor are they New editions. They occupy their own design space like DCC RPG. Maybe "other OGl" or some such. |
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Post by thegreyelf on Oct 8, 2021 9:06:45 GMT -6
The store writeup for Gods & Legends:
Though the gods dwell beyond the confines of the world, they are drawn to it. Too often they see to force their will upon the realms of mortals. Channeling this divine will lies upon the shoulders of the cleric and paladin, the skald and druid. They turn to the gods through prayer, ritual, sacrifice, and devotion, all in hopes of bringing that power into and through themselves, to unleash it upon the world at large.
Within Gods and Legends, there are hundreds of deities for both your characters and monsters; dwarves, elves, gnomes, orcs, gnolls, and more besides. Each deity comes complete with information you will need from when to sacrifice to what kinds of temples they prefer. It also includes short stats for the gods of the Celts, ancient Germans, Norse, Romans and Greeks, Egyptians, and the Slavic Gods.
More than that, Gods and Legends comes with guidelines on how to run deities and the characters that worship them.
What Lies Within Gods & Legends
Gods & Legends consists of three main parts: The Anvil of the Gods (a how-to section), Humanoid Pantheons (from humans to dwarfs to orcs), and real-world mythologies.
Anvil of the Gods
Pantheon of Beliefs: In the first part of Gods & Legends you find a host of guidelines and suggestions for running deities in your campaign. Beginning with Deities in a Role Playing Game we explore the role of deities at the table, both for divine-based characters and the mundane fighter and rogue. The section covers role playing the deities themselves, the how and why, struggles with the deities, and a short description of the powers they all possess.
Gifts and Boons, the Holy Gift: Here we explore the roles of various classes in the deity/character relation: clerics, paladins, and druids.
Gods and Avatars: The abilities of gods transcend most characters, but it is always possible to use the god’s avatar, whether your games are high level or low. Learn how to use them no matter what your campaign.
Healing and Holy Symbols: These sections delve into one of the major aspects of character play and how it relates to the gods.
Humanoid Pantheons
Dwarf, Elf, Halfling, Gnome, Bugbear, Gnoll, Goblin, Orc, Hobgoblin, Lizardman, Kobold, Giant, Ogre, Troll, Dragon, Fey, Centaur, Mermen and Sahugin.
Real World Mythologies
Here we step lightly into the real world and plug in the stat blocks for Celtic, Egyptian, Germanic, Norse, and Slavic deities. Each entry exists as a stat block of the necessary information, as these are covered in far greater detail in the Mythos books
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Post by tdenmark on Oct 8, 2021 12:21:36 GMT -6
Ok, this will go on my "wish list" for the Holiday sales when I load up. Thanks thegreyelftdenmark, have you picked up the Egyptian Codex book? It seems to get mixed reviews- great for actual history, not so great for an actual gaming product for a FRPG. No. Egyptian mythology really isn't of much interest to me. |
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Post by jeffb on Oct 11, 2021 14:35:21 GMT -6
In case anyone is interested, Steve is doing a show on Twitch TV tonight re: the Gods & Legends book. IDK if you have to have an account or anything for Twitch, just passing along info from the email. 8PM Central www.twitch.tv/trolllordgames/ |
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Post by jeffb on Oct 13, 2021 10:10:59 GMT -6
I was only able to listen to the Livestream for a few minutes, but what I heard sounds pretty good. From what I could tell Gods & Legends is supposed to be a new/fresh take on the SOS we have seen in D&D (and even C&C) over the decades. Their spin on "canon". I'll have to check and see- I loved what 4E did for D&D "canon", would love for C&C to do the same.
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phantomtim
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Post by phantomtim on Nov 1, 2021 1:20:42 GMT -6
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phantomtim
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Post by phantomtim on Nov 1, 2021 1:38:24 GMT -6
Finarvyn was briefly discussing this in another thread. When asked, my recommendation was a new sub forum, but IDK where Fin is at with that decision. C&C and 13th Age are not Simulacrums of an older edition, nor are they New editions. They occupy their own design space like DCC RPG. I agree. Does odd74 have rules around new forum creation, similar to those found at The Piazza? |
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Post by jeffb on Nov 1, 2021 4:35:49 GMT -6
Finarvyn was briefly discussing this in another thread. When asked, my recommendation was a new sub forum, but IDK where Fin is at with that decision. C&C and 13th Age are not Simulacrums of an older edition, nor are they New editions. They occupy their own design space like DCC RPG. I agree. Does odd74 have rules around new forum creation, similar to those found at The Piazza? No clue Tim.. That's a question for Finarvyn |
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Post by aramis on Nov 1, 2021 21:42:11 GMT -6
Finarvyn was briefly discussing this in another thread. When asked, my recommendation was a new sub forum, but IDK where Fin is at with that decision. C&C and 13th Age are not Simulacrums of an older edition, nor are they New editions. They occupy their own design space like DCC RPG. I agree. Does odd74 have rules around new forum creation, similar to those found at The Piazza? I believe they amount to "Convince Finarvyn it's a good idea without pissing him off first." IMO, C&C is a new edition, really. While it's character and monster compatible for AD&D (rather than OD&D) it's not modifier compatible - you actually need to convert a few things to use it for characters. You have to use the C&C modifiers, not the AD&D ones, and note the favored attributes. Not a lot of conversion, but some. Likewise, using those is a different process from AD&D. It's designed to take the (typically skeletal) AD&D module statblocks and use them on the fly... by the different processes in C&C. |
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Post by thegreyelf on Nov 4, 2021 15:30:20 GMT -6
I agree. Does odd74 have rules around new forum creation, similar to those found at The Piazza? I believe they amount to "Convince Finarvyn it's a good idea without pissing him off first." IMO, C&C is a new edition, really. While it's character and monster compatible for AD&D (rather than OD&D) it's not modifier compatible - you actually need to convert a few things to use it for characters. You have to use the C&C modifiers, not the AD&D ones, and note the favored attributes. Not a lot of conversion, but some. Likewise, using those is a different process from AD&D. It's designed to take the (typically skeletal) AD&D module statblocks and use them on the fly... by the different processes in C&C. I would agree with this, by and large. It's also worth noting that before C&C came along, Steve Chenault refused to play any game other than AD&D. He now only plays C&C. In addition, Gary Gygax consulted with the Trolls on the creation of C&C. He wasn't directly involved with the design, but he and Steve had become friends by the time C&C was in active development, and his ideas and opinions were taken seriously. This comes straight from him; he was a regular contributor and very accessible on the old TLG forums back in the day. He also once said flat-out on the forums that "C&C is the direct spiritual successor to my AD&D," and intimated more than once that it was similar to what he may have done had his AD&D second edition ever seen the light of day. Not precisely, obviously, but similar. So yeah. If you MUST consider C&C a version of D&D, it would certainly qualify as a new edition. I'm not sure the work required to convert is QUITE what Aramis implies, however; the ability bonuses are straight from B/X and BECMI, for example, and as I have been told by the other Trolls (I wasn't yet around when it was actually built), the statistics and math underlying the system were very carefully crafted so that the result would be similar to the probabilities you'd see in AD&D, just with a more intuitive front end. That being said, I'm crap with math and statistics--I have other people who run that stuff for me in my own design--so I haven't really attempted to challenge the statements. Now, that being said, jeffb is correct when he says it really occupies its own design space. After all, you could use D&D stat blocks with DCC as well, and it's not a new edition. C&C is, however, a simulacrum game by standard definition, rather than a retroclone, as is DCC. Both seek to recreate the FEEL of playing an old school game, AD&D specifically, without precisely replicating the exact mechanics. |
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Post by thegreyelf on Nov 8, 2021 13:01:43 GMT -6
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Post by jeffb on Nov 8, 2021 19:15:56 GMT -6
This is an excellent Blog post- thanks for the link, Jason. Steve and I are on similar wavelengths. A screen should have all I need to run the game-just add a monster book. |
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Post by Finarvyn on Nov 9, 2021 12:26:03 GMT -6
I believe they amount to "Convince Finarvyn it's a good idea without pissing him off first." Ouch. Direct, but correct.  Some of our Admin have pushed for reorganization and such, but my usual habit is to notice if there are a lot of threads on the same topic and then to create a folder to put all of those threads. I notice a lot faster when others make suggestions. I have zero problem with having a section for C&C or 13th Age or both, mostly because I like them and play them. If you suggest something that I don't play it requires a little more persuasion. For example, "Old School Essentials" is supposed to be great but I don't play it and don't own it and have never had a lot of enthusiasm for B/X anyway, so I might make a section for it but it might take a lot of threads before I notice them. |
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Post by thegreyelf on Nov 9, 2021 13:55:58 GMT -6
Speaking as a humble user that has been here for about 11 years, I oppose reorganization. Largely because as it stands I know where everything is, this place feels like home to me, and I'm just tired of everything in my life getting "upgraded," "revamped," or "reorganized."
SOME THINGS MUST BE SACRED, DARNIT!
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Post by Finarvyn on Nov 9, 2021 15:40:58 GMT -6
A screen should have all I need to run the game-just add a monster book. Much truth here. In the old days I used either my yellow JG screen or the LBB reference sheets, supplemented by a monster manual. (Later this became the 2E Monsterous Manual because of the color pictures, or sometimes the C&C M&T if that was handy.) If you have to constantly look stuff up, something is wrong.  |
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Post by Starbeard on Nov 9, 2021 15:45:58 GMT -6
Speaking as a humble user that has been here for about 11 years, I oppose reorganization. Largely because as it stands I know where everything is, this place feels like home to me, and I'm just tired of everything in my life getting "upgraded," "revamped," or "reorganized." SOME THINGS MUST BE SACRED, DARNIT! That and it just seems impudent to have a forum dedicated to OD&D that is well organized. |
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phantomtim
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Post by phantomtim on Nov 9, 2021 18:07:20 GMT -6
it just seems impudent to have a forum dedicated to OD&D that is well organized. Hah! Well said. That put a smile on my face. |
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Post by thegreyelf on Nov 9, 2021 18:28:43 GMT -6
it just seems impudent to have a forum dedicated to OD&D that is well organized. Hah! Well said. That put a smile on my face. HAHAHAHAHA mine, too. Well done! |
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Post by jeffb on Nov 11, 2021 8:20:22 GMT -6
A screen should have all I need to run the game-just add a monster book. Much truth here. In the old days I used either my yellow JG screen or the LBB reference sheets, supplemented by a monster manual. (Later this became the 2E Monsterous Manual because of the color pictures, or sometimes the C&C M&T if that was handy.) If you have to constantly look stuff up, something is wrong. For me, it was the Ready Ref sheets (which is essentially the same thing as the Judges Shield). Since we shared a copy of the LBBs as a group for the first several months, the RRS were a godsend. Of course we shared that too- most of us had photocopies of those . |
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