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Post by jeffb on Jul 23, 2021 16:58:36 GMT -6
Was just discussing this recently with tdenmark NECROPOLIS on KSNow it says it is fully revised for 5e as well as S&W- and I'm wondering just how much it has been revised, cos y'know.... of all the trouble with all of Gary's old works and Gail..for pete's sakes, she sued the hell out of her own Sons-in-Law! |
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Post by jeffb on Jul 23, 2021 17:04:53 GMT -6
Found my answer to the question- checked the updates- FGG staff indicate it
"is a very heavy rewrite".
"a very deep conversion, with lots of changes"
I'm out.
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Post by geoffrey on Jul 23, 2021 19:06:50 GMT -6
The original version of Necropolis was for the highest level of characters. It was meant to be tougher even than the Tomb of Horrors. This version is for PCs of levels 7 through 9 (when they first start the adventure).
I assume this change was to make it more widely appealing. I remember Joseph Goodman years ago reported on some market research, focusing of what D&Ders actually buy as opposed to what they say they want to buy. Guess what level of module was easily the best seller?
1st-level modules
And that was the base of a pyramid (heh) in which there was a perfect inverse ratio: the higher the level of the module, the lower its sales.
(I suppose there is an opportunity for some company to do nothing but intriguing modules for levels 1 to 3: dungeons, wilderness, cities, nautical, underwater, science-fantasy, horror, time travel, other-planar, you-name-it.)
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Post by jeffb on Jul 23, 2021 19:39:36 GMT -6
IIRC Necropolis for 3.0 also had some lower level material added compared to the original version.
But after viewing the comments on the KS, I have ZERO interest in purchasing a Gary Gygax adventure that has been gutted and re-written. I have pretty much lost any respect for or have any desire to purchase anything from FGG/NG
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Post by tdenmark on Jul 24, 2021 1:34:53 GMT -6
of all the trouble with all of Gary's old works and Gail..for pete's sakes, she sued the hell out of her own Sons-in-Law! Wicked stepmothers aren't just an old fairy tale trope. |
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Post by tdenmark on Jul 24, 2021 1:42:59 GMT -6
Was just discussing this recently with tdenmark NECROPOLIS on KSNow it says it is fully revised for 5e as well as S&W- and I'm wondering just how much it has been revised, cos y'know.... of all the trouble with all of Gary's old works and Gail..for pete's sakes, she sued the hell out of her own Sons-in-Law! Well, it hit its goal fast. I don't need another copy, though unlike some of the comments here I do like the idea of making it for lower levels. I don't have a lot of fun with high level campaigns anymore. |
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Post by jeffb on Jul 24, 2021 12:35:19 GMT -6
Was just discussing this recently with tdenmark NECROPOLIS on KSNow it says it is fully revised for 5e as well as S&W- and I'm wondering just how much it has been revised, cos y'know.... of all the trouble with all of Gary's old works and Gail..for pete's sakes, she sued the hell out of her own Sons-in-Law! Well, it hit its goal fast. I don't need another copy, though unlike some of the comments here I do like the idea of making it for lower levels. I don't have a lot of fun with high level campaigns anymore. FGG/NG never has issues hitting goals and fast, not that I have seen anyway. I've no issue with lower level play (and generally prefer it!) , but no doubt that this adventure is supposed to be extreme. Not that it matters- as I'm in no way supporting a heavy re-write of one of Gary's best efforts- but I would prefer to see more lower level play areas in the sandbox, rather them water down the main location/s. |
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Post by Deleted on Jul 25, 2021 15:17:25 GMT -6
If it's a "heavy rewrite," then it just seems like FGG is trading off of Gygax's name.
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Post by jeffb on Jul 26, 2021 7:56:08 GMT -6
If it's a "heavy rewrite," then it just seems like FGG is trading off of Gygax's name. Yep* And you notice that at least on the mockup, Gary's name is nowhere to be found on the cover which is B.S. I almost want to call Gail myself.  * Those quotes in my second post are directly from NG/FGG staff answering questions in the comments or whatever section of the KS. |
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Post by Falconer on Jul 26, 2021 9:30:15 GMT -6
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Post by jeffb on Jul 26, 2021 9:57:07 GMT -6
Thanks Falconer I was unaware of this BLOGger and the conversion notes. According to him, NG was able to keep the rights to Necropolis, which stinks* FWIW- The D20 version I think is still available on Drive Thru (and probably not too difficult to convert), but I really wish I had the DJ version still- that was magnificent (better art/layout, IMO) * It also would have stunk if it went to Gail. But frankly I would rather not have anything (the likely result if Gail got the rights) than a knockoff product that has been completely re-written. Have some respect for the founder of the game who did this 20 years ago with you and helped upped your cred immensely in the 3PP market. |
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Post by Falconer on Jul 26, 2021 11:46:42 GMT -6
I do own the DJ original, luckily. It appears to have gotten quite rare and pricey of late.
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Post by jeffb on Jul 26, 2021 18:54:26 GMT -6
I do own the DJ original, luckily. It appears to have gotten quite rare and pricey of late. It was hard to find and pricey in the early Y2Ks! I happened to luck upon a lot that had it, Epic of Aerth, and Mythus Prime for like $30.00 which was normally about what each book would go for! |
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Post by tdenmark on Jul 26, 2021 19:05:19 GMT -6
I do own the DJ original, luckily. It appears to have gotten quite rare and pricey of late. It was hard to find and pricey in the early Y2Ks! I happened to luck upon a lot that had it, Epic of Aerth, and Mythus Prime for like $30.00 which was normally about what each book would go for! I had the whole set, including all the short lived magazines. I found the game impenetrable, after it sat on my shelf for years I finally sold it on eBay. I don't remember the actual amount it went for, but I do recall being somewhat disappointed. I guess I should have held on to it longer. |
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Post by jeffb on Jul 26, 2021 19:20:13 GMT -6
It was hard to find and pricey in the early Y2Ks! I happened to luck upon a lot that had it, Epic of Aerth, and Mythus Prime for like $30.00 which was normally about what each book would go for! I had the whole set, including all the short lived magazines. I found the game impenetrable, after it sat on my shelf for years I finally sold it on eBay. I don't remember the actual amount it went for, but I do recall being somewhat disappointed. I guess I should have held on to it longer. The Standard/Full MYTHUS rules were an absolute nightmare IMO but MYTHUS PRIME was a nice tight "Basic Set" that seemed playable for the handful of sessions I ran it. And you can see the roots of Lejendary Adventures in PRIME as as well. The hardest thing about them both was Gary trying so hard to re-label all the common game terms. |
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Post by tdenmark on Jul 27, 2021 1:16:44 GMT -6
The Standard/Full MYTHUS rules were an absolute nightmare IMO but MYTHUS PRIME was a nice tight "Basic Set" that seemed playable for the handful of sessions I ran it. And you can see the roots of Lejendary Adventures in PRIME as as well. The hardest thing about them both was Gary trying so hard to re-label all the common game terms. I've heard similar sentiments from many others. TSR's lawyers had Gary up against the wall, so he was forced to work around them. Unfortunately overly complicating terms. Many of the concepts were up to the best of Gary's work, and the artwork was fantastic. |
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Post by asaki on Jul 27, 2021 19:38:01 GMT -6
Oh cool, I'll have to check that out. I've got the d20 version of the PDF. The hardest thing about them both was Gary trying so hard to re-label all the common game terms. Yeah, that's what gets me, it's too confusing to keep all of these new terms straight. Especially when every other RPG in the universe just copies D&D's terminology. I never bothered picking up DJ itself, but I do have the DMG and MM for Lejendary Adventures (and some "basic" player rules that I found on some Japanese website... ¬_¬) |
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Post by Falconer on Jul 27, 2021 21:33:34 GMT -6
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Post by jeffb on Jul 29, 2021 7:21:48 GMT -6
Oh cool, I'll have to check that out. I've got the d20 version of the PDF. The hardest thing about them both was Gary trying so hard to re-label all the common game terms. Yeah, that's what gets me, it's too confusing to keep all of these new terms straight. Especially when every other RPG in the universe just copies D&D's terminology. I never bothered picking up DJ itself, but I do have the DMG and MM for Lejendary Adventures (and some "basic" player rules that I found on some Japanese website... ¬_¬) If you can find a reasonably priced copy of the original LA PHB, it is worth it for the High Gygaxian spells. Gary was in fine form for that. TLG did put out an essentials box set, and a(?) supplement, and adventure(s?) if you can find them. I'm guessing that may be the "basic" set you found. They also had a free quickstart PDF. I did not care for the reformatting or Peter Bradley's art (never been a big fan) in the TLG products- I much preferred the original publications. |
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Post by asaki on Jul 29, 2021 22:02:03 GMT -6
If you can find a reasonably priced copy of the original LA PHB, it is worth it for the High Gygaxian spells. Gary was in fine form for that. Lol, I don't think I will ever find a reasonably priced copy. I think the cheapest I've ever seen it was around $70. I think I got the other two books for $10 each, "new", bagged...and not that long ago, either. TLG did put out an essentials box set... They also had a free quickstart PDF. Oh yeah, I forgot about those, I "have" those PDFs too. (edit: actually, two different versions of the quickstart rules: one from DragonsFoot, and one from Troll Lord Games) No, this was a site that just had all of the info spread out in HTML. I saved the files, but not the URL they came from...looks like they were hosted at GeoCities. "This Role-Playing Game was created by Gary Gygax, the creator of Advanced Dungeons & Dragons, but has yet to be released in Japan - here, I help those stranded in Japan out by introducing some basic rules and tables here." "Information here is derived from the following, all rights reserved to their authors: 1. "Lejendary Adventure: Quick Start Rules," copyright Trigee Enterprises Co. 2. "Lejendary Rules for All Players," by Gary Gygax 3. www.lejendary.com (download #1 and buy #2 here! Also visit the discussion boards!) 4. "Lejend Magazine," by Gary Gygax and others All of the art is 256-color pixel art of unknown origin =) |
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Post by jeffb on Jul 30, 2021 7:17:06 GMT -6
If you can find a reasonably priced copy of the original LA PHB, it is worth it for the High Gygaxian spells. Gary was in fine form for that. Lol, I don't think I will ever find a reasonably priced copy. I think the cheapest I've ever seen it was around $70. I think I got the other two books for $10 each, "new", bagged...and not that long ago, either. TLG did put out an essentials box set... They also had a free quickstart PDF. Oh yeah, I forgot about those, I "have" those PDFs too. (edit: actually, two different versions of the quickstart rules: one from DragonsFoot, and one from Troll Lord Games) No, this was a site that just had all of the info spread out in HTML. I saved the files, but not the URL they came from...looks like they were hosted at GeoCities. "This Role-Playing Game was created by Gary Gygax, the creator of Advanced Dungeons & Dragons, but has yet to be released in Japan - here, I help those stranded in Japan out by introducing some basic rules and tables here." "Information here is derived from the following, all rights reserved to their authors: 1. "Lejendary Adventure: Quick Start Rules," copyright Trigee Enterprises Co. 2. "Lejendary Rules for All Players," by Gary Gygax 3. www.lejendary.com (download #1 and buy #2 here! Also visit the discussion boards!) 4. "Lejend Magazine," by Gary Gygax and others All of the art is 256-color pixel art of unknown origin =) I didn't say it would be easy And yep, I just remembered there was a QS from Hekaforge (the one on DF) and TLG. Enclave (Adventure) is a worth finding. I also thought Lejendary Earth was a bit easier to absorb than Epic of Aerth. I was not aware of that HTML site- I'm not a web design person, but I miss those old Geocities websites- reminds me of good ol' early RPG days on the internet...before The Dark Times...Before Wizards...The Empire.. |
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Post by soundchaser on Aug 8, 2021 6:58:34 GMT -6
Terms. Meh!
So crazy that the copyright laws even at the time were a sieve that you could (and can) drive a truck through safely. But that’s armchair generaling. Still, maybe edit a pdf to replace every term and see how the game reads anc plays;)
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Post by jeffb on Aug 8, 2021 7:45:03 GMT -6
Terms. Meh! So crazy that the copyright laws even at the time were a sieve that you could (and can) drive a truck through safely. But that’s armchair generaling. Still, maybe edit a pdf to replace every term and see how the game reads anc plays;) I did find a "inspired by the original" out there with cleaned up terminology called Perilous Journeys. Perilous Journeys |
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