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Post by jeffb on Jul 24, 2021 12:44:10 GMT -6
I wonder whether it's also to do with the gap between what was hastily written/published, and how the game turned out in practice... Frex, have a re-read of the first para under NON-PLAYER CHARACTERS (M&M p12). It talks about players hiring bands of mercenaries, having a regular entourage, and wanting to run an "army of some form". Whether or not this ever happened doesn't matter overly. It seems to describe a different/earlier context for play; a more wargame-ee, many-versus-many game of "sides" rather than a pitiful band of "individual" PCs versus the Underworld. Just speculating  And of course you have the fact that Gary was specifically targeting the wargaming market- as there was no other market to target- so he's going to need to draw them in on a read-through/browse. |
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Post by waysoftheearth on Jul 24, 2021 18:14:28 GMT -6
Not only that, he was a wargamer himself, so this would have been his basic operating model to start from.
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Post by jeffb on Jul 24, 2021 19:16:08 GMT -6
Not only that, he was a wargamer himself, so this would have been his basic operating model to start from. Yep, I figured I wouldn't state the obvious, but absolutely he was marketing to people like himself |
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Post by waysoftheearth on Jul 27, 2021 6:17:04 GMT -6
I wonder whether it's also to do with the gap between what was hastily written/published, and how the game turned out in practice... Frex, have a re-read of the first para under NON-PLAYER CHARACTERS (M&M p12). It talks about players hiring bands of mercenaries, having a regular entourage, and wanting to run an "army of some form". Whether or not this ever happened doesn't matter overly. It seems to describe a different/earlier context for play; a more wargame-ee, many-versus-many game of "sides" rather than a pitiful band of "individual" PCs versus the Underworld. Just speculating Aaaand I just came across this post on Jon's blog, which should probably be made compulsory reading  playingattheworld.blogspot.com/2017/12/d-in-news-1976-duke-and-evil-balrog.html#more |
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Post by jeffb on Jul 27, 2021 7:34:28 GMT -6
I wonder whether it's also to do with the gap between what was hastily written/published, and how the game turned out in practice... Frex, have a re-read of the first para under NON-PLAYER CHARACTERS (M&M p12). It talks about players hiring bands of mercenaries, having a regular entourage, and wanting to run an "army of some form". Whether or not this ever happened doesn't matter overly. It seems to describe a different/earlier context for play; a more wargame-ee, many-versus-many game of "sides" rather than a pitiful band of "individual" PCs versus the Underworld. Just speculating Aaaand I just came across this post on Jon's blog, which should probably be made compulsory reading playingattheworld.blogspot.com/2017/12/d-in-news-1976-duke-and-evil-balrog.html#moreInteresting article. It amazes me to this day just how vastly different distinct groups of people played the game (and of course helps to reinforce Gary the Businessman's stance for uniformity as time went on) Apparently that style never made it across the Potomac River to Northern Virginia, where I grew up.  Even though I was only about 20 miles from DC, I never once encountered a group that played like that at all- even in the aftershool/library clubs (where things REALLY varied)' Then again, these people in the article were already wargamers - so Gary's target market. It would be a little over a year after this article was written that I would start playing and I believe one or two of the group I joined had been playing for about a year previous to me, so late '76. But we were also younger - single digits, tweens, teens- and not wargamers. Side note-I wonder how long that shop existed? I don't recall the name, but I used to visit Baltimore on occasion and there was a shop in the inner harbor area I went to a few times. I also hit up the complete strategists later on - one was in Falls Church VA, another in D.C., IIRC (edit-maybe Alexandria?) Side note #2- And interesting mention of Sapienza- now I understand the reason for his rules-laden alternate systems for D&D that were published in the early issues of Different Worlds. And it also explains his eventual conversion to Runequest (he was also responsible for those godawful early RQ character sheets). He was a hardcore wargamer. |
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Post by ahabicher on Aug 10, 2021 14:36:39 GMT -6
Don't the Thief skills get kind of wonky in BECMI compared to B/X because of being stretched over 36 levels? I have even seen Frank Mentzer himself give a gamer on Facebook (who was stumped by something) the advice to just use the B/X version of the thief skills. The man is cool enough to stand taller than any one single edition, even his own. |
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ThrorII
Level 4 Theurgist
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Post by ThrorII on Aug 10, 2021 15:05:12 GMT -6
Don't the Thief skills get kind of wonky in BECMI compared to B/X because of being stretched over 36 levels? I have even seen Frank Mentzer himself give a gamer on Facebook (who was stumped by something) the advice to just use the B/X version of the thief skills. The man is cool enough to stand taller than any one single edition, even his own. You can also just chose to use the 1st printing Mentzer Expert set. That has the B/X thief progression rates, as well as "hear noise" being factors of d6. The later printings are the ones where they stretched the thief's abilities over 36 levels and changed hear noise to %.
In such a game you'd use any printing of Mentzer Basic, the 1st printing of Mentzer Expert, and use Mentzer Companion rules strictly for dominion rules and mass combat - and "companion play" would be levels 9-14.
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Post by jeffb on Aug 10, 2021 16:46:10 GMT -6
I have even seen Frank Mentzer himself give a gamer on Facebook (who was stumped by something) the advice to just use the B/X version of the thief skills. The man is cool enough to stand taller than any one single edition, even his own. You can also just chose to use the 1st printing Mentzer Expert set. That has the B/X thief progression rates, as well as "hear noise" being factors of d6. The later printings are the ones where they stretched the thief's abilities over 36 levels and changed hear noise to %. I was not aware of this and decided I'd take at gander at Frank's play copies to see if he made any notations or whatnot in the Thief section/s of the Basic and Expert booklets. Then I remembered that all my gaming books are in a storage unit right now-  |
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