Splinter of the Mind's Eye and other pocket continuities

[Deleted]

I finally got around to reading Alan Dean Foster's Splinter of the Mind's Eye, which iirc was preceded only by the original movie and a novelization ghost-written by Foster. (Were there any comic books yet at this point?) One thing that strikes me about this is that while it's classed in the Legends timeline currently, it seems to almost be a pocket continuity in Star Wars in a similar fashion to the Infinities tales. I mentally had prepared myself to pretend pretty much only Star Wars (1977) and this book exist in their own little micro-continuity, as I'd been advised to do by some people earlier.

The main thing that makes me gravitate towards this classification is that the way the galaxy and Empire are spoken about are super rough and early versions. This story still goes with the Star Wars novelization's assertion that the Empire had been around for decades, maybe more than half a century, before Luke enters the Rebellion. There are also statements that suggest that Lord Vader is one of several Imperial governors and agents who have Force mastery and could have plausibly sensed the Kaiburr Crystal when Luke touched it. It's also implied that there was an Imperial Charter at some point that was quite benign and had such prohibitions as waging war against aborigines, and that's in stark contrast to what we learn about the Empire as the EU and later material came out. 

As for the narrative itself, it was a fun little story. Quite slim. I burned through it in a handful of hours. It was a well-written page turner, about what I've come to expect from my brief experience with this author. The location and plot outline were memorable. We get Luke and Leia stranded on a little-known jungle planet en-route to a clandestine Rebel meeting to bring a new star system into the fight against injustice. Their X-Wing and Y-wing are disabled by an energy storm of unknown origin, they meet some new friends and foes including a Force-sensitive old lady and a masochistic Imperial town magistrate. The Luke and Leia whose exploits we follow are much younger, more vulnerable and less experienced versions than the ones from the Thrawn books I read earlier this year, but that works for this type of story. There's a climactic battle with Darth Vader where we see some weird Force stuff we never see before or after, including a visible energy ball. In fact, the Vader stuff is a big reason I place this in an adjacent timeline. The Vader whose legacy is solidified in Empire Strikes Back would not have been susceptible to sniper fire and would not have struggled in a lightsaber duel against Luke at this point in his training. He certainly wouldn't have lost an arm or been tricked into falling down a mine shaft. But, as I said, if you imagine nothing after the original film exists but this (a difficult but achievable mental exercise), it holds up as a fun little sci fi romp. Solid three star effort and under-rated I feel. 

[Piper]

Dec 27, 2020 8:42:50 GMT -6 @ampleframework said:

(Were there any comic books yet at this point?)

I worked in a toy department that first horrible Christmas season after the movie came out (shudder). I could have sold out of peanut brittle if it would have been stamped with something like Olde Dagobah Peanut Brittle: A Skywalker Favorite!, for crying out loud.

If memory serves me well, we were also selling Marvel comic book adaptations of the Star Wars film.

[Deleted]

Dec 27, 2020 9:38:47 GMT -6 Piper said:

Dec 27, 2020 8:42:50 GMT -6 @ampleframework said:

(Were there any comic books yet at this point?)

I worked in a toy department that first horrible Christmas season after the movie came out (shudder). I could have sold out of peanut brittle if it would have been stamped with something like Olde Dagobah Peanut Brittle: A Skywalker Favorite!, for crying out loud.

If memory serves me well, we were also selling Marvel comic book adaptations of the Star Wars film.

 Ah, see, that's why I asked. I knew about all the merchandising of that first year. I've heard many anecdotes from my mother and uncle, and others who were at that peak age to both enjoy the original movie and consume all the merchandise they could. I think every other kid must have had a Star Wars lunch box or model rocket X wing in the late seventies. I couldn't recall hearing about when the comics came around, the initial Marvel run, however. Wikipedia informs me issue 1 of Marvel Star Wars came out in 1977, so you're correct in your memory.

Now I need to investigate if that series is back in print or has an Omnibus. Disney has been pretty good about re-releasing classic books and comics since their acquisition, at the very least. I saw the Knights of the Old Republic omnibus at Amazon the other day, for instance, and that's definitely on my wish list for later.  I know there's also a comic book adaptation of Splinter of the Mind's Eye because I saw images of Halla and Grommel when looking to see if there's any artistic portrayal of them.

[Zenopus]

Per Wikipedia, Splinter of the Mind's Eye was out in hardcover in March 1978, with the softcover following the next month.

The Marvel comic series started running original stories with issue #7 in February 1978, so around the same time as Splinter, and continued through an adaptation of Empire starting issue #39 (cover Sep 1980, but on-sale May 27, 1980, around the same time as Empire). So the Marvel issues from #7-38 would be the ones to focus on for a pre-Empire version of the Star Wars setting, though for the latter of those they may have been influenced by the upcoming Empire.

[Deleted]

Dec 27, 2020 14:32:46 GMT -6 Zenopus said:

Per Wikipedia, Splinter of the Mind's Eye was out in hardcover in March 1978, with the softcover following the next month.

The Marvel comic series started running original stories with issue #7 in February 1978, so around the same time as Splinter, and continued through an adaptation of Empire starting issue #39 (cover Sep 1980, but on-sale May 27, 1980, around the same time as Empire). So the Marvel issues from #7-38 would be the ones to focus on for a pre-Empire version of the Star Wars setting, though for the latter of those they may have been influenced by the upcoming Empire.

Informative! Thanks. Yes. I assume the writers and artists for the latter ones would have had access to some production materials for ESB. Strangely, though, maybe not all designs were finalized? There's famously Yoda from the earliest ESB comics where he looks like a little Smurf or blue gnome or something instead of what we got in the movie.

[Zenopus]

I actually didn't know that about the blue Yoda! I don't think I've ever read the Marvel ESB adaptation.

I have some of the latest Disney Epic Collections, although I haven't read through them all.

I have the first two Marvel Epic Collections, and I checked and Vol 1 covers Marvel #1-23, and Vol 2 covers #23-38, so that's all of the pre-ESB issues.

Vol 1: www.amazon.com/Star-Wars-Legends-Epic-Collection/dp/1302902210

Vol 2: www.amazon.com/Star-Wars-Legends-Epic-Collection/dp/1302906801

Each volume also contains contemporaneous stories only published in the UK starting in Oct 77, in Pizazz and then Star Wars Weekly. That's more material for an examination of how various writers viewed the pre-ESB Star Wars setting.

I also have the E.C. The Newspapers Strips Vol. 1, which collects the newspaper Star Wars comic that started in 1979. The first 200 pages or so of material in this are pre-ESB. There's some wild stuff in there that looks more like 1930's Buck Rogers than SW.

www.amazon.com/Star-Wars-Legends-Epic-Collection/dp/1302904647

[Zenopus]

Dec 27, 2020 9:48:43 GMT -6 @ampleframework said:

I think every other kid must have had a Star Wars lunch box or model rocket X wing in the late seventies.

I was one of those that had the lunch box as a kid!

The bottom of the box had a striking image of a Stormtrooper on a dewback:



This was an illustration based on a still that appeared in SW promotional materials:



This shot doesn't appear in the movie itself; it's just a promotional photo. In the original version of the "Look sir, Droids!" scene, a stormtropper sitting on a dewback can be seen in the far background, but there was a never a close-up like this in the movie itself. Of course, in my mind it *was* in the movie because it was on my lunchbox.

[thomden]

Dec 27, 2020 18:59:24 GMT -6 Zenopus said:

This shot doesn't appear in the movie itself; it's just a promotional photo. In the original version of the "Look sir, Droids!" scene, a stormtropper sitting on a dewback can be seen in the far background, but there was a never a close-up like this in the movie itself. Of course, in my mind it *was* in the movie because it was on my lunchbox.

It's weird. I still remember this shot being in the movie, even though it never was.

[thomden]

Dec 27, 2020 8:42:50 GMT -6 @ampleframework said:

I finally got around to reading Alan Dean Foster's Splinter of the Mind's Eye,

I read this book as soon as it came out (and yes, there were some Marvel Star Wars comics already) and was very confused when watching Empire Strikes Back the first time as I thought Splinter of the Mind's Eye was the sequel.

As I recall, this was George Lucas' safety story, in case the budget for a sequel movie was really small Alan Dean Foster was directed to write a story with minimal locations so that it could be filmed on a small budget. Which is why it almost all takes place on one planet, in one town, and a cave.

I remember loving the book, but I haven't read it again since I was 9.

Splinter of the Mind's Eye...isn't that a great title?

[Deleted]

Dec 28, 2020 8:22:21 GMT -6 thomden said:

Dec 27, 2020 8:42:50 GMT -6 @ampleframework said:

I finally got around to reading Alan Dean Foster's Splinter of the Mind's Eye,

I read this book as soon as it came out (and yes, there were some Marvel Star Wars comics already) and was very confused when watching Empire Strikes Back the first time as I thought Splinter of the Mind's Eye was the sequel.

As I recall, this was George Lucas' safety story, in case the budget for a sequel movie was really small Alan Dean Foster was directed to write a story with minimal locations so that it could be filmed on a small budget. Which is why it almost all takes place on one planet, in one town, and a cave.

I remember loving the book, but I haven't read it again since I was 9.

Splinter of the Mind's Eye...isn't that a great title?

It is! A real "eye catcher". The new print I got has a Ralph McQuarrie painting as the cover, too. Luke and Leia down in the mud with Vader towering above them. Very evocative. I have heard that this was going to be the "backup" second Star Wars movie before. I'm glad we got what we got but I'd like to see someone film this. Probably these days it would be an animated fan project but those often turn out well!

[geoffrey]

Cthulhu is in it.

[Deleted]

Mar 27, 2021 20:38:28 GMT -6 geoffrey said:

Cthulhu is in it.

You mean that big creature that chased Luke into an ancient storm drain or something? It's been a few months since I read it. That part felt very pulpy in a good way. 

[geoffrey]

Apr 2, 2021 13:05:50 GMT -6 @ampleframework said:

Mar 27, 2021 20:38:28 GMT -6 geoffrey said:

Cthulhu is in it.

You mean that big creature that chased Luke into an ancient storm drain or something? It's been a few months since I read it. That part felt very pulpy in a good way. 

No, there is a statue of Cthulhu in the subterranean caverns.

[geoffrey]

From Splinter of the Mind's Eye:

A colossal statue was seated there against the dark wall. It represented a vaguely humanoid being seated on a carved throne. Leathery wings which might have been vestigial swept out in two awesome arcs to either side of the figure. Enormous claws thrust from feet and arms, the latter clinging to the ends of armrests on the throne. It had no face below slanted, accusing eyes -- only a mass of Medusian, carved tentacles.

From The Call of Cthulhu:

It represented a monster of vaguely anthropoid outline, but with an octopus-like head whose face was a mass of feelers, a scaly, rubbery-looking body, prodigious claws on hind and fore feet, and long, narrow wings behind.

[doublejig2]

Good stuff!

[stevemitchell]

I met Alan Dean Foster at a comic shop event once many years ago. He had written a Cthulhu Mythos novelette entitled "The Horror on the Beach" that was published in booklet form by a small press outfit called Valcour and Krueger. Everybody else was asking him about his work on the Star Wars book; but, ever the ardent Lovecraftian, I asked him about the genesis of that tale, particularly as he was not usually thought of as a Mythos writer.

He explained that he had seen a rare SF/fantasy book for sale at a rather high price at a Los Angeles shop, one that he was particularly interested in owning. He tried negotiating with the shop owner about acquiring the book at a reduced price. Finally, the owner, Ken Krueger, said he would give the book to Foster for free--IF Foster, in turn, would write a Cthulhu Mythos story that Krueger could publish! So Foster went home and dashed something off in a just a couple of days, and then returned to the shop to claim his prize! (So yes, he definitely knew about Cthulhu.)

And having established that the Mythos entities were known at the time of the Old Republic, who's going to work up the first Jedi vs. Cthulhu scenario?

[doublejig2]

Yet do Cthulhu and company as no mere Siths present a counter example to the notion of the force entirely? 

[Deleted]

Apr 2, 2021 17:04:07 GMT -6 doublejig2 said:

Yet do Cthulhu and company as no mere Siths present a counter example to the notion of the force entirely? 

Some of the later EU writers eventually introduced eldritch beings that were immune to the Force because they were not a part of the weave of normal life and came from another galaxy, so in a way this theme was repeated and expanded upon, though in a less overtly Lovecraftian way. 

[Starbeard]

I read this recently (link below) and feel like this thread about "pocket continuities" is a good place to share it. It's an archived 2003 post on the Dark Horse message boards by Pablo Hidalgo (posting as pabawan, his usual handle back then as master of StarWars.com).

The thread he was posting in is a discussion about the emergent nature of "established continuity" in Star Wars, and how/why it has become so much more important to that franchise than, say, Sherlock Holmes, and I'd say his viewpoint here was decidedly more "pro-Splinter" than most fans would feel comfortable with. For the record, in 2003 I probably would have disagreed as violently as his responders in the linked thread, but the older I get the more I find myself actually sympathizing with his point.

web.archive.org/web/20141113144228/http://boards.darkhorse.com/viewtopic.php?f=1&t=4010&start=15

[geoffrey]

From Pablo's message: "George set out to give a story to a generation growing up without fairy tales, and instead created a generation that can't grow up."

[Falconer]

LOL, so Pablo was a super-geek, reading and trying to integrate and reconcile absolutely everything SW and, as he says, getting frustrated and angry and deciding it wasn’t fun anymore, and finally railing at anyone and everyone who was interested in any sort of minutiae (such as blueprints and the length of a Super Star Destroyer). And ultimately he was responsible for getting the entirety of the EU declared non-canon. All because he had gotten too deep and couldn’t just enjoy pocket continuities the way a normal person can.

[Starbeard]

Well, I had that kneejerk reaction too, but after reading the context and going over it several times, I don't actually think that's really what he was saying. It's certainly hidden in curmudgeonly language that I think stems partially from his fluent-but-non-native use of English as well as him also just being a bit if a decorum-less curmudgeon. But really the argument is in favor of pocket continuities, rather than lamenting his disillusionment and defeat against them (edit: or rather, in favor of placing current story over past continuity, so that continuity is a happy option rather than a narrative necessity). And ultimately I think his statements about the community are absolutely factual: the reality is that Star Wars fans as a whole absolutely are compulsively incapable of chilling out about things like continuity. There are simply no grounds to argue otherwise in the face of now decades of fandom wars to point to.

The only subjective part is whether we believe that is what gives Star Wars its magic, that Star Wars can only be enjoyable if Luke or Han act correctly, whether the essence of Star Wars is in its genre and style, or its characters and plots. Ultimately, whether we are okay with and happy knowing that we can't chill out. There's no right answer to that, obviously; and if I make it sound like my preference leans one way it's probably because it does, but if I sound dismissive or malicious toward the other view it's entirely unintentional.

This is also nearly 20 years ago, and there's no way of being able to tell how earnest or self reflective his statements were, or how many of them have carried forward into the present. Maybe he was just in a phase of burnout at the time. It happens to us all, I wouldn't fault for that. I went through a phase where I was just over Star Wars period, movies and all. I know what that's like.

But ultimately, really the thing I find interesting is watching the wild ride relationship to continuity that Lucasfilm and its licensees have taken over the past 20 years. From that semi-detached context, Hidalgo's post seems weirdly prophetic to me in hindsight.

[geoffrey]

When I was 7 years old, I watched Star Wars in June of 1977.

Everything I saw of Star Wars thereafter (whether the Marvel comics, or the movie's novelization, or TESB, or etc.) instantly struck me as "wrong". Not necessarily all bad, but not really Star Wars.

That has given me a life-long immunity to questions of Star Wars canon. My only canon is the 1977 movie.

[tkdco2]

I don't even worry about canon anymore. As far as I'm concerned, canon is overrated. My only concern is whether or not I enjoy the film or novel. If I enjoy the film or novel, I'll probably watch or read it again. Otherwise, I won't pay any more attention to it.

[Deleted]

All I'll say about Pablo Hidalgo is that considering his recent online interactions with fans who prefer the older materials, his benefit of the doubt has been waived in my sector. (Specifically, he publicly mocked fans who cried over Luke Skywalker's return on The Mandalorian.)

[thomden]

Canon is important. It keeps those creating within that universe "honest". I mean they're not going to throw in an animated James Baskett singing "Zip-a-Dee-Doo-Dah" on Endor with ewoks just because it is a catchy song and Disney has the rights.

The reason properties like Star Wars, Middle Earth, and others work is because they create a world and while you are in it there is an activation of the theater of the mind. Breaking canon breaks that suspension of disbelief.

I get that Star Wars has become fan art, and feels like it, so maybe it devolves into just a brand and an aesthetic. I'd like to think there is still a little magic left in that universe before then. I mean Mandalorian had its moments, and if you watched Clone Wars there were some really great story arcs and characters that briefly transcended the medium.

As I was an 8 year old boy watching Star Wars in the theater when it first came out nothing will ever compare. Back then the entertainment world was a desert with the occasional oasis compared to the piles of sci-fi & fantasy schlock that we're buried in now.

[Deleted]

Apr 23, 2021 6:19:58 GMT -6 thomden said:

Canon is important. It keeps those creating within that universe "honest". I mean their not going to throw in an animated James Baskett singing "Zip-a-Dee-Doo-Dah" on Endor with ewoks just because it is a catchy song and Disney has the rights.

The reason properties like Star Wars, Middle Earth, and others work is because they create a world and while you are in it there is an activation of the theater of the mind. Breaking canon breaks that suspension of disbelief.

I get that Star Wars has become fan art, and feels like it, so maybe it devolves into just a brand and an aesthetic. I'd like to think there is still a little magic left in that universe before then. I mean Mandalorian had its moments, and if you watched Clone Wars there were some really great story arcs and characters that briefly transcended the medium.

As I was an 8 year old boy watching Star Wars in the theater when it first came out nothing will ever compare. Back then the entertainment world was a desert with the occasional oasis compared to the piles of sci-fi & fantasy schlock that we're buried in now.

It was also easier for the generation that watched that movie in the theater to have "Star Wars" in common. There were only like four tv channels that most people had and something like one tenth of the movies and tv shows that exist today were airing at any given time. You guys didn't have all those streaming services, or cable/satellite or internet like the kids these days do. I grew up when it was still VHS era so I'm slightly closer to your demographic. The kids in my classroom all still watched the same movies and listened to the same music, for instance. These days it's so fragmented. Even if Star Wars is still a multi-billion dollar franchise, you can easily enter into a room where people who have engaged with the franchise are in the minority. 

There's plenty of very popular movies and tv shows that apparently everyone but me has watched, for that matter. I haven't seen any of the Marvel movies in theaters. I've never watched the Office before. I could name several dozen others if I thought about it. They've very popular but for whatever reason, probably because of too many choices and too little time, I simply haven't really gotten into them. Like, if I'm scrolling through Netflix and the Office is on there, but I see that the Castlevania anime has another season, I'm watching Castlevania. 

So, I get why Star Wars isn't nearly as popular per-capita as it once was. We have an embarrassment of riches when it comes to entertainment. I'm sure a lot of people see Star Wars as quaint or old fashioned - something their parents liked. They may not be against it or hate it, but they're like me. They wouldn't stop to give it a look as opposed to something more in their wheelhouse. It's the double-edged sword of this era we live in. If there are ten million choices, each individual thing has much more competition and some simply get overlooked by some people. 

[thomden]

Apr 23, 2021 6:35:05 GMT -6 @ampleframework said:

So, I get why Star Wars isn't nearly as popular per-capita as it once was. We have an embarrassment of riches when it comes to entertainment. I'm sure a lot of people see Star Wars as quaint or old fashioned - something their parents liked. They may not be against it or hate it, but they're like me. They wouldn't stop to give it a look as opposed to something more in their wheelhouse. It's the double-edged sword of this era we live in. If there are ten million choices, each individual thing has much more competition and some simply get overlooked by some people. 

My kids are bored with Star Wars. They'd rather watch anime. I think that is probably pretty true of a lot of kids these days. When I look at those Star Wars sequels I wonder just what audience they are going for? I can't imagine any 12 year old kids getting excited about admiral holdo or grumpy Luke. I mean I get that they aren't for me, that's fine I got to have my Star Wars. These days I'm more interested in reading and creating anyways.

[Deleted]

Apr 23, 2021 6:47:25 GMT -6 thomden said:

Apr 23, 2021 6:35:05 GMT -6 @ampleframework said:

So, I get why Star Wars isn't nearly as popular per-capita as it once was. We have an embarrassment of riches when it comes to entertainment. I'm sure a lot of people see Star Wars as quaint or old fashioned - something their parents liked. They may not be against it or hate it, but they're like me. They wouldn't stop to give it a look as opposed to something more in their wheelhouse. It's the double-edged sword of this era we live in. If there are ten million choices, each individual thing has much more competition and some simply get overlooked by some people. 

My kids are bored with Star Wars. They'd rather watch anime. I think that is probably pretty true of a lot of kids these days. When I look at those Star Wars sequels I wonder just what audience they are going for? I can't imagine any 12 year old kids getting excited about purple haired admiral gender studies or grumpy Luke. I mean I get that they aren't for me, that's fine I got to have my Star Wars. These days I'm more interested in reading and creating anyways.

I think there was a misstep there. I think if writers like Favreau and Filoni had handled the movies, they'd have been more coherent and faithful to the aesthetics and morals of Star Wars as we know it. There would have been a plan going in, at least. It's pretty obvious, once the dust has settled, that these movies were being written as they were being filmed, and the directors were at odds with one another. 

The part that truly baffles me is that the current Lucasfilm staff apparently has a highly-paid Story Group whose job it is to keep canon consistent, but there are already multiple inconsistencies and glaring plot holes in the canon timeline. If the entire reason that the EU was pushed off to Legends was to create a more consistent EU, then they've already failed less than a decade after the Disney purchase and subsequent restructuring. There's no reason that side-movies and spinoff TV shows should be higher quality and better rated by fans than the mainstream movies, and yet here we are. 

[thomden]

Apr 23, 2021 7:05:33 GMT -6 @ampleframework said:

The part that truly baffles me is that the current Lucasfilm staff apparently has a highly-paid Story Group whose job it is to keep canon consistent, but there are already multiple inconsistencies and glaring plot holes in the canon timeline. If the entire reason that the EU was pushed off to Legends was to create a more consistent EU, then they've already failed less than a decade after the Disney purchase and subsequent restructuring. There's no reason that side-movies and spinoff TV shows should be higher quality and better rated by fans than the mainstream movies, and yet here we are. 

Perhaps they are more concerned with contemporary politics than with telling good stories or maintaining consistent canon. Star Wars is a soap box not a soap opera to them.