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Post by Punkrabbitt on Aug 3, 2020 14:42:07 GMT -6
OK, so my friends and I tried out the new Warhamster 40,000 9th edition rules yesterday. You can read all about it here.
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arkansan
Level 5 Thaumaturgist
Posts: 229
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Post by arkansan on Aug 26, 2020 8:08:34 GMT -6
I haven't had a chance to look at the new rules yet. I've just sort of abandoned the idea of staying current with the rules and have gone the oldhammer route, mostly playing Rogue Trader.
What in particular about the new rules did you dislike? I've heard lots of people complaining about over watch or something?
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Post by Punkrabbitt on Aug 26, 2020 10:18:25 GMT -6
I haven't had a chance to look at the new rules yet. I've just sort of abandoned the idea of staying current with the rules and have gone the oldhammer route, mostly playing Rogue Trader. What in particular about the new rules did you dislike? I've heard lots of people complaining about over watch or something? 1st edition Rogue Trader didn't need overwatch, but they added it later as people started playing with more than a squad or two per side lol! It was gone by 3rd edition, and it's return in 8th addition was perhaps the best implementation ever: if your squad got charged for melee, they could shoot at the charging unit but needed 6's to hit. In 9th, they made the overwatch mechanic require the use of a Command Point, which essentially relegated it to once-per-turn usage. The reason they made this change was because it made melee armies to vulnerable. And things like actual tactics went out the window again. In real life, the reason we don't have armies of guys with swords and pistols is because anyone with a rifle kills them before they get close. And the new rules took that quasi-realism right back out. The two guys I game with are both ex-military, and they have a reasonable expectation that actual tactics should have an effect on the game. There is a lot of minutiae that prevents this.
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arkansan
Level 5 Thaumaturgist
Posts: 229
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Post by arkansan on Aug 26, 2020 19:56:20 GMT -6
I haven't had a chance to look at the new rules yet. I've just sort of abandoned the idea of staying current with the rules and have gone the oldhammer route, mostly playing Rogue Trader. What in particular about the new rules did you dislike? I've heard lots of people complaining about over watch or something? 1st edition Rogue Trader didn't need overwatch, but they added it later as people started playing with more than a squad or two per side lol! It was gone by 3rd edition, and it's return in 8th addition was perhaps the best implementation ever: if your squad got charged for melee, they could shoot at the charging unit but needed 6's to hit. In 9th, they made the overwatch mechanic require the use of a Command Point, which essentially relegated it to once-per-turn usage. The reason they made this change was because it made melee armies to vulnerable. And things like actual tactics went out the window again. In real life, the reason we don't have armies of guys with swords and pistols is because anyone with a rifle kills them before they get close. And the new rules took that quasi-realism right back out. The two guys I game with are both ex-military, and they have a reasonable expectation that actual tactics should have an effect on the game. There is a lot of minutiae that prevents this. Interesting. Over watch just makes sense from a verisimilitude perspective, demoting it to something along the line of a limited activation ability just sort of smacks of a ham handed attempt to please all sides.
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Post by Punkrabbitt on Aug 27, 2020 15:03:22 GMT -6
That was it exactly. It rendered it back to just a game with abstract game rules, not related to anything resembling reality. The down side is that it is the #1 miniatures game out there, so to meet new people for pickup games you need to know the rules and have an up-to-date army so you can slowly lure them into better things.
Out of the blue, one of my old gaming buddies invited me to join him, his brother, and his nephew for 40K 9th gaming. And he KNOWS there are better games out there...
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arkansan
Level 5 Thaumaturgist
Posts: 229
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Post by arkansan on Aug 29, 2020 10:53:43 GMT -6
That was it exactly. It rendered it back to just a game with abstract game rules, not related to anything resembling reality. The down side is that it is the #1 miniatures game out there, so to meet new people for pickup games you need to know the rules and have an up-to-date army so you can slowly lure them into better things. Out of the blue, one of my old gaming buddies invited me to join him, his brother, and his nephew for 40K 9th gaming. And he KNOWS there are better games out there... I'm just glad I jumped off the edition treadmill with 40k, I do oldhammer for the most part. I've also played a good bit with Renegade Scout, a Rogue Trader clone that has rules for converting figures and points from various editions.
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Post by Punkrabbitt on Aug 29, 2020 11:07:29 GMT -6
I am intrigued by Renegade Scout. I've gotten a few things for it from his Patreon, but I'm not sure I would use it enough to make it worth the investment. I play a lot of his Five Men, Five Parsecs, and Five Leagues games.
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arkansan
Level 5 Thaumaturgist
Posts: 229
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Post by arkansan on Aug 29, 2020 22:18:37 GMT -6
I am intrigued by Renegade Scout. I've gotten a few things for it from his Patreon, but I'm not sure I would use it enough to make it worth the investment. I play a lot of his Five Men, Five Parsecs, and Five Leagues games. It does a pretty bang up job of feeling like Rogue Trader but less fiddly and better organized. There's a revised edition coming out soon, which will just be an update of the existing pdf. He's also begun preliminary work on a fantasy version for the WHFB oldhammer scene.
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