Deleted
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Post by Deleted on Aug 6, 2020 16:44:44 GMT -6
I'm not saying this is what's happening in this particular case (it sounds like there was just a way to go around a dungeon here), but I also think there's an issue of good faith lurking under some of this discussion. If everyone knowingly sits down to the table to play a plot-point, narrative driven module, I think the players have some obligation to play the actual module. Much like if a DM says he has a new dungeon he wants to playtest, it would be bad form to show up to that game and then avoid the dungeon. Outside of a sandbox setting, I think there's an unspoken social contract to play the game on offer or just pass on playing. I've found that in the past, most of my heartache and disappointment in refereeing the game has stemmed from a failure on my part to mention what I had and had not prepared for the session. Some referees like to keep that kind of meta information completely "behind the screen" and mysterious but it's benefited me immensely on a personal level to be up front and honest. I just tell them "Look, I've made this dungeon the focus of 90% of my prep. I've put like four hours of the past week into fleshing it out. You guys are free to do whatever tonight but most of the good stuff's gonna be in that dungeon." I find unless the player in question is a tee-total butt munch, he or she will comply with an implied request like that. Usually. |
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Post by Deleted on Aug 7, 2020 4:43:23 GMT -6
I disagree. Only a certain type of modern gamer expects this. I educate them otherwise, and they're free to go play with someone else. In my experience, though, my younger players have told me I ruined D&D for them with my wacky plot-less settings, because no other games they play in are as fun any more. Then they start to try to create settings instead of story themselves  You are not wrong there, Mako. There is a reason why virtually all of us like "shared sandbox" concepts - they just plainly work, and rarely do you find people who don't like them. That said, I think there's a difference between an "expectation", and an "aggressive demand" for a certain way that a game is played. Modern RPG conventions are just simply more "novelesque": People who come from any of the more recent editions of D&D or PF - they simply are not familiar with a less browbeating style than many modern modules forced on them. (3e was the worst in this regard.) Do you happen to remember how, during 3e and 4e, there was this mantra that "adventures don't sell"? - Yeah, WotC's adventures didn't sell!  Precisely because of their novelesque structure! Others did, though. |
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Post by makofan on Aug 7, 2020 12:50:59 GMT -6
I tend to just play the system I've got and don't pay much attention to what was going on in the mainstream world. Pretty much anything I play, if I buy it, is from the old school guys - Mines of Khunmar, Fight On! magazine, old JG stuff I never got around to
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Post by Deleted on Aug 8, 2020 1:50:37 GMT -6
I've never been an oldschool-only guy; usually, I've bought and played what I liked - and those things just happened to be found within the oldschool landscape. Necromancer Games surely turned out to be important for my growth as a DM, as were the adventure remakes released for the second edition of "Dragon Warriors". But it surely wasn't until I started reading old White Dwarf magazines that "oldschool"-style game design became a primary focus of my campaigns - 2010, perhaps? So, I've certainly looked at, and played a lot of the newer stuff. ...But for some reason, I like it better here, in our corner of the hobby.  |
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Post by Punkrabbitt on Aug 8, 2020 12:27:02 GMT -6
Sandbox is best box. I always had little side-treks ready for when the characters didn't go in the direction I had planned. 4e changed that with the intense balancing act of both party character and monster character roles in combat. That WotC put out a computer program to help balance encounters says a lot about hiw hard it was to balance on the fly. 4e is what sent me fleeing back to OD&D, for all the reasons discussed here.
One of the best things I can suggest to a DM of players with "modern" sensibilities is to check out Star Wars (the original 1977 movie.) Open your adventures the same way that Star Wars opens: right in the middle of the action, context unneeded. Backstory and plot can be filled in later.
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lige
Level 2 Seer
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Post by lige on Aug 12, 2020 20:12:18 GMT -6
One of the greatest things that came out of the OSR was the attempt to present adventures simply and clearly so you didn’t have to wade thru walls of text to figure out what’s happening. Mixed metaphors aside that’s what’s kept me away from pretty much everything released by our corporate overlords since about 1990. In my own game I tend to try to do just in time prep for everything - I put out bait and if the players go for it I’ll develop it further for the next session. Sometimes if I’m lucky I get inspired enough to create something that can last a couple of sessions. It goes the same with adventures/modules - tinkering between sessions makes them more interesting to me. The only flaw in this is when the players get hooked into a major quest - then I feel I owe them something a little bigger - which can be a gamble (of wasted pep time) if they decide to bail at the end.
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Post by dicebro on Aug 19, 2020 19:44:49 GMT -6
I almost hate to ask this question . . . are there some things I should be doing (or thinking) differently? I don’t tell other refs how to run a game. But here’s what I do with some modules: make a quick list of the monsters and treasure and then make the rest up as I go, staying about 10 seconds ahead of the players. It’s fun! |
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Post by dicebro on Aug 19, 2020 19:49:10 GMT -6
Players have been screwing over DM plans for years lol. Lol! Absolutely. That’s why I gave up planning! |
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Post by jeffb on Aug 20, 2020 7:47:21 GMT -6
In recent years I have had more fun with the following "adventure starter" someone came up with for Dungeon World than is legal. I've used this for O/TSR D&D , 5E, 13th Age, and DW, of course. Just grab a map or two, a monster manual and go. No need to stick to a hard script.
For each category/question roll randomly, DM choice, or let your players choose (this has been the most fun for me, creatively as a DM)
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Precisely because of their novelesque structure! 
