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Post by religon on Jul 29, 2020 13:33:56 GMT -6
My 60-ish year old aunt posted online today that people need to use "common sense." She is one of the most ignorant and ditzy people I have ever met. It got me thinking. Everyone, especially in youth, thinks they are charismatic (good-looking) and wise. [edit: corrected typo]
What if players delayed rolling these two statistics? (Perhaps clerics could roll Wisdom at 1st-level.)
I have seen a number of players abandon a 1st or 2nd level character with a poor Wisdom or Charisma score just to see if they could roll a little better on the next one. If they had to wait until 3rd level (or some other point) to make rolls for these two abilities, I could see some very interesting characters emerging. (Until rolled, treat all characters as having an "11" in these scores.)
What do you think?
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Post by hamurai on Jul 30, 2020 0:21:04 GMT -6
What would be the reason for this? I'm not sure I understand why you'd delay these stats especially.
If anything, I'd say ignore all stats till 2nd level and just play your character. Then, roll some stats, and see that they won't have such a big impact on your game as you feared when you rolled some stats below 8.
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Post by religon on Jul 30, 2020 9:12:54 GMT -6
I'll elaborate on my reasoning if unclear or not self-apparent. Character creation is often a player's favorite part of D&D. Delayed gratification gives players an opportunity to look forward to completing the character creation process while investing in developing an existing character rather than simply abandoning a non-optimal character. Characters begin developing a character immediately with play... and perhaps their backstory. It leads to an interesting role-playing opportunity for a character to develop a character as wise or charming when it is later revealed that they are not in fact what they had assumed about themselves. I think of the PI played by Matt Dillon in "There's Something About Mary" movie. Using traditional character generation, I have never seen that sort of character, self-deluded. I think it would be good role-playing. hamurai , have you delayed stat generation until 2nd level? I have never done so, but not have ability scores for STR, DEX, CON and INT until 2nd level seems like it would be difficult to begin to develop characters at first level. These 4 abilities seem like a character would not be self-deluded about in the same way as the other two.
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Post by captainjapan on Jul 30, 2020 12:21:18 GMT -6
I wouldn't house rule what you're suggesting. If your players enjoy the character creation process, it will either be because they like optimizing or characterizing. Your players are optimizers (tossing and re-rolling low scoring characters). If they start the game with an average score(11, let's say) and then get hammered with a really low roll at level-up, they might not be very appreciative of this "roleplaying" scheme of yours. Likewise, if they were the type of player already putting in the effort to roleplay their preferred personality type (that is, anything but a foolish boor), they should not be made to feel ridiculous by a surprise ability roll to the contrary.
If you want to memorialize your aunt in D&D, it should be you who roleplays her. Don't put that on your friends. They'll have their own ideas about what makes a compelling (amusing) character.
BTW, You never said what edition you were playing. In a very minimal character creation phase, you may be able to get away with no ability scores, at all. Just roll them up, in-game, as the need arises.
edit: I hope that didn't come off sounding too harsh. It's an interesting idea, in theory.
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Post by religon on Jul 30, 2020 18:31:18 GMT -6
I wouldn't house rule what you're suggesting.... edit: I hope that didn't come off sounding too harsh. It's an interesting idea, in theory. I'm uncertain which rules, but most likely B/X with possible BECMI, Rule Cyclopedia or 1st Ed. Obviously, in these editions, there is no optimization going on with characters other than what is allowed on B6 (minimal). Roll it up and play it. I wouldn't characterize it as a "scheme," but rather just another way to play the game. I don't see how mature players would feel ridiculous. A statistically anomalous positive roll for delayed abilities are just as likely as negative results. The shy player playing a passive character might get a high Charisma ability and begin playing his character as a leader... changing his style of play and further developing the character. This is commonplace in the literary inspiration for D&D, perhaps even the iconic Bilbo. It could even lead to an interesting inter-party leadership struggle, another fantasy trope that is fun to roleplay. My aunt only got me thinking of people's inability to see themselves as they actually are. Nothing more. You did come off as an insufferable p***k. I was just going to ignore you. Thanks for the edit. (fixed quote ---Z)
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Post by hamurai on Jul 30, 2020 23:27:51 GMT -6
Using traditional character generation, I have never seen that sort of character, self-deluded. I think it would be good role-playing. hamurai , have you delayed stat generation until 2nd level? I have never done so, but not have ability scores for STR, DEX, CON and INT until 2nd level seems like it would be difficult to begin to develop characters at first level. These 4 abilities seem like a character would not be self-deluded about in the same way as the other two. Playing a self-deluded character can be a challenge and/or offer comic relief, which can be a nice addition to the table if the group is into such things. My group is, and one very memorable such character was in our Mutant Year Zero campaign. He was the group's leader because of his social abilities, and because we made fun of him that he wasn't that useful in combat situations, he decided to prove his martial prowess, too. He would jump right into the action and the rest of the group was after him, just trying to save him most of the time, which he understood as "leading the charge". Very funny moments. Halfway through the campaign, though, the character got more and more insane in his actions and eventually found his doom after rushing a group of bat mutants. So, any stat can be the center of delusion. A character might think they're the strongest and toughest although in reality they're far weaker than they thought (a common problem I'd say frim experience). I haven't delayed stat generation in a longer game, but I've done it in a one-shot. It was to prove a point, sort of, when I introduced OD&D to a new group who thought that stat generation with 3d6 mostly resulted in unplayable characters. They got to choose their class at 1st level and we played a "tutorial" where I showed them how I played the game, more by telling the story and them reacting by explaining, not by stating which skill they used and me telling how it turned out. They were used to it: Encountering a challenge and telling the DM which skill they used, and the DM would tell them if they succeeded or not. I wanted them to use their imagination rather than their numbers on the character sheets, so we played halfway through the adventure without stats. They only had their class abilities. Then they got to roll their stats. There were some really disappointed looks until I told them how little those numbers actually mattered if you played not for number-crunching, but for fun and cleverness. I told them to play just as before and although some went back to their thinking of "low stat = inability", in the end they all caught on to just telling me their actions and forgetting about the stats.
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