Mines & Countermining

[captainjapan]

Mines and Counter-mining:
These operations are only possible to conduct on
paper. A third party is necessary to act as judge of the various attempts at mining
the walls or counter-mining to prevent it. The attacking player must designate
certain numbers of his troops as "sappers" or miners. While the defender will
always know where these men are located, he will not know if they are actually at
work on a mine, or merely serving to decoy his counter efforts from a real attempt

elsewhere. As battle progresses on the table top, the paper operations should
keep pace. Allow the attacker to actually attempt two or three mines, while allowing the defender only one or two counters to them. If counter- mines are at all
near to the attackers mines (say about 6"-12"), the mining attempt fails, and all
attacking miners are killed. If a mine succeeds, a 6"wide breech is created wherever the mine strikes the wall.

                                                                                - from Chainmail (1972?) pg.21

This is under the Sieges section. Can someone help me put this into a normal turn sequence, e.g.:

1) Initiative
2) winner moves
3) loser moves
3) Artillery
4)Missile
5)Melee

Also, are all the miner figures known to the castle defender or are the figures just noted as such, in secret, on the attacker's maneuver sheet?

How many turns does mining take? Is a mine considered to be the whole lead-up of trenches or just a single point of attack along the castle wall?

Any help with this is appreciated.

[derv]

I agree captainjapan it is not entirely clear.

What I would do is allow for a certain rate of movement for the sapper's per 2 figures. Let's say 1" per turn, just like towers. Allow the Attacker to allocate "X" number of figures to the effort and allow him the choice of creating from 1-3 mines. So, if he chose 6 figures he could dig three tunnels 1" per turn or he could dig one tunnel 3" per turn, for example. He could also choose not to invest all his figures to the effort, using some as decoys.

The attacker can place these figures on the table top anywhere he chooses that is out of bow range. This would be the mines entrance(s). The defender will know this is a possible tunnel.

A ref might allow a defender up to an equal amount of figures dedicated to counter mining, but they may only dig 1-2 tunnels.

Have 2 pieces of graph paper with copies of the castle walls outlined. Each square will equal 1" on the playing surface. Give one copy to each side. Have them each draw their tunnels for a turn. The ref can look at these side by side or overlap the two at a window to judge. Should a counter mine come within 6" of a mine the effort was thwarted. The mine is collapsed and all figures lost in the effort. If a mine succeeds in reaching a castle wall a 6" wide breech is created.

There are additional rules for fantastic sieges on p38 3e to consider also.

[captainjapan]

derv said:

What I would do is allow for a certain rate of movement for the sapper's per 2 figures. Let's say 1" per turn, just like towers. Allow the Attacker to allocate "X" number of figures to the effort and allow him the choice of creating from 1-3 mines. So, if he chose 6 figures he could dig three tunnels 1" per turn or he could dig one tunnel 3" per turn, for example. He could also choose not to invest all his figures to the effort, using some as decoys.

brilliant.

That's as good a scheme of resource management as I could have come up with. Any amount of progress seems historically unrealistic, but base 1" mining makes the game playable. I was reading Gygax as making # of attempts the metric for rate of mining. That's where I was stuck.

So, his "procedure" looks like it had a single decision point, right at the moment of encounter, at the wall. You're method may be more similar to what he actually had in mind, even if he worded it confusingly. That would be basically the same as the Jack Scruby rule that increment posted here .

As to the "Fantastic Sieges" reference, maybe it would be easiest to make dwarven figures the miners, exclusively.

Something I noticed: I have a homemade curtain wall for my castle. It's only 2 feet long, in front. That means that two countermines, spaced a foot apart would have thwarted any attempt on that side( I don't have the room to move the model out ), but if the defenders are encouraged to tunnel out of the castle to intercept the miners, the contest will be much more dynamic.  

[derv]

Jul 25, 2020 15:07:24 GMT -6 captainjapan said:

Something I noticed: I have a homemade curtain wall for my castle. It's only 2 feet long, in front. That means that two countermines, spaced a foot apart would have thwarted any attempt on that side( I don't have the room to move the model out ), but if the defenders are encouraged to tunnel out of the castle to intercept the miners, the contest will be much more dynamic.  

A siege against a fortification of two or three sides makes for a more interesting situation. If you only have room for a siege that involves a frontal assault that covers 24" I would only permit the defender one countermine. Always give the attacker at least one more attempt than the defender has. In this case 2 possible mines. Maybe even up to three. This is what creates the challenge for both sides. Keep in mind that neither side has to dig in perpendicular lines to the castle wall. They can also dig parallel and diagonal tunnels.