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Post by dicebro on Jan 1, 2022 11:02:05 GMT -6
Mmm. An interesting approach. My intuition is that it will produce a very rich treasures for the shallow dungeon levels compared to the method described by UWA p7 for random dungeon stocking (you can do whatever you like when thoughtfully placing treasures). Take Dwarfs, for example. M&TA includes examples of rooms with 2-5 dwarfs on dungeon level 1. M&TA also has a list of 100 random treasures for DL 1 rooms which mostly comprise a few hundred CP, SP or GP. The single most valuable treasure in 100 treasures for DL 1 (at a quick scan) is a piece of jewelry worth 1,400 g.p. However, if I understand the above method, 50% of DL 1 rooms with 2-5 dwarfs in them would also be lairs with treasure type G in them, worth an average of around 24,000 g.p. Something's obviously not right with that  I’m only using the 3 volumes. Plus, The list on pg 10 of volume 3 doesn’t have Dwarves, Unless I am missing something. |
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Post by dicebro on Jan 1, 2022 11:23:26 GMT -6
Mmm. An interesting approach. My intuition is that it will produce a very rich treasures for the shallow dungeon levels compared to the method described by UWA p7 for random dungeon stocking (you can do whatever you like when thoughtfully placing treasures). Take Dwarfs, for example. M&TA includes examples of rooms with 2-5 dwarfs on dungeon level 1. M&TA also has a list of 100 random treasures for DL 1 rooms which mostly comprise a few hundred CP, SP or GP. The single most valuable treasure in 100 treasures for DL 1 (at a quick scan) is a piece of jewelry worth 1,400 g.p. However, if I understand the above method, 50% of DL 1 rooms with 2-5 dwarfs in them would also be lairs with treasure type G in them, worth an average of around 24,000 g.p. Something's obviously not right with that Let’s assume, for the sake of argument, that Dwarves were on the MONSTER LEVEL TABLES referred to on pg 7 vol.3. How much gp could the party carry out? Large sacks only carry 300gp. The party would be so weighed down that they risk being overwhelmed by wandering monsters on the way out. Also, other dwarves in the dungeon, perhaps kindred of the slain dwarves, will fight to take back their stolen hoard, or part thereof. In my campaign the party would have a heck of a time getting the loot back to town. Any loot that remained in the former lair would be moved to another location before a second expedition. same thing goes with Bandits, and their treasure type A. |
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Post by waysoftheearth on Jan 1, 2022 17:04:15 GMT -6
Dwarfs were just an example. They appear on UWA p18, but that doesn't matter. The same logic applies to all monster types, e.g., bandits as you mentioned. Their treasure type (A1) is worth almost double what G is worth, and bandits are in their lair 15%.
Regarding carrying the loot away: it's worth noting that 85% of the average monetary (and XP) value of treasure type A1 is in the jewellery. Another 9% is in gems. the remaining 6% is in all those thousands of coins you can't carry anyway. Magic items are a bonus.
FWIW, I think the description of Orcs in M&T p7 is quite useful in visualising what a lair is. It says:
When found in their "lair" it will be either a cave complex (1-4) or a village (5-6).
It goes on to explain all the sentries, war machines and other defences around either type of lair. So it seems pretty clear that an orc "lair" is a complex of rooms/locations that houses the 30-300 orcs and their overall lair treasure (type D in this case), rather than the lair being a single room/location. M&T is not explicit, but the lair treasure could clearly all be hidden in a single vault (probably the orc chief's treasury), or it could be spread across several rooms. Having a whole treasure type D in 50% (because orcs are 50% in lair) of the rooms/locations in the lair complex seems generous to me. But if it works for your game, more power to you!
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Post by dicebro on Jan 1, 2022 18:20:06 GMT -6
Dwarfs were just an example. They appear on UWA p18, but that doesn't matter. The same logic applies to all monster types, e.g., bandits as you mentioned. Their treasure type (A1) is worth almost double what G is worth, and bandits are in their lair 15%. Regarding carrying the loot away: it's worth noting that 85% of the average monetary (and XP) value of treasure type A1 is in the jewellery. Another 9% is in gems. the remaining 6% is in all those thousands of coins you can't carry anyway. Magic items are a bonus. FWIW, I think the description of Orcs in M&T p7 is quite useful in visualising what a lair is. It says: When found in their "lair" it will be either a cave complex (1-4) or a village (5-6).It goes on to explain all the sentries, war machines and other defences around either type of lair. So it seems pretty clear that an orc "lair" is a complex of rooms/locations that houses the 30-300 orcs and their overall lair treasure (type D in this case), rather than the lair being a single room/location. M&T is not explicit, but the lair treasure could clearly all be hidden in a single vault (probably the orc chief's treasury), or it could be spread across several rooms. Having a whole treasure type D in 50% (because orcs are 50% in lair) of the rooms/locations in the lair complex seems generous to me. But if it works for your game, more power to you! Good arguments! One thing I can note is that no matter how much treasure the party may actually find and carry out, the max they can level is one. |
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Post by rsdean on Jan 6, 2022 9:41:02 GMT -6
Mmm. An interesting approach. My intuition is that it will produce a very rich treasures for the shallow dungeon levels compared to the method described by UWA p7 for random dungeon stocking (you can do whatever you like when thoughtfully placing treasures). Take Dwarfs, for example. M&TA includes examples of rooms with 2-5 dwarfs on dungeon level 1. M&TA also has a list of 100 random treasures for DL 1 rooms which mostly comprise a few hundred CP, SP or GP. The single most valuable treasure in 100 treasures for DL 1 (at a quick scan) is a piece of jewelry worth 1,400 g.p. However, if I understand the above method, 50% of DL 1 rooms with 2-5 dwarfs in them would also be lairs with treasure type G in them, worth an average of around 24,000 g.p. Something's obviously not right with that If it were me, the Type G treasure for a lair would be associated with the full number of dwarves per the charts, i.e. 40-400… |
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Phenster Dragorgn
Level 1 Medium
Creating and playing Dreaming Amon-Gorloth, a dungeon and wilderness adventure campaign using Holmes
Posts: 15
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Post by Phenster Dragorgn on Jan 10, 2022 14:44:05 GMT -6
I always thought it was obvious You roll Wilderness encounter: Giants Check what % chance it is that you encounter them in their lair, where they will have their 5000 GP + Treasure Type E Later, Gary made this explicit in his Monster Manual, so not only was it clear to me, we know Gary's intent "% IN LAIR indicates the chance of encountering the monster in question where it domiciles and stores its treasure (if any). If a monster encountered is not in its lair it will not have any treasure unless it carries “individual” treasure or some form of magic. Whether or not an encounter is occurring in the monster‘s lair might be totally unknown to the person or persons involved until after the outcome of the encounter is resolved." This is the way I've done it since I can remember. After placing special monsters and their special treasure--that is, monsters/treasure that are important to the scenario, I go through the dungeon trying to think of interesting monsters/treasure for each room. When I'm out of ideas and too many empty rooms, I roll randomly for room contents, the guidelines for which are spare in Vol III. Then I roll to see if each monster has any treasure at all. My answer to your question is coming up here, Dan. For any monsters that do have treasure, I roll the % in Lair. If the monster is in its lair, it gets lair type treasure (from its stat block). If it is not in its lair, it's in this room temporarily. It has some treasure but not a hoard. (Note this is different from a wandering monster, which has no treasure at all.) |
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