Spellcraft & Swordplay 2nd Edition

[thegreyelf]

Development continues on S&S 2e. It's turning out to be a pretty substantial revision of the original game. In fact, as of now it's not even going to be OGL and will have its own ability scores (though they should be easily transferable to the familiar six for those who want to convert characters). Some of the major changes so far:

1. You "buy" levels in character classes with XP, allowing for customized characters with a level of warrior, two levels of wizard, a level of thief, etc.
2. Combat no longer uses hit dice and hit points, but wounds. Weapons do a set number of wounds based on their weapon class (1, 2, or 3), and in some cases characters can save to reduce or eliminate wounds suffered in combat. PCs gain additional wound capacity as they rise in character level. Monsters can take a number of wounds equal to their level (which roughly equates to hit dice in the former game--an 8HD vampire, for example, would be a level 8 creature able to suffer 8 wounds).
3. Combat no longer uses tables, but a basic formula of 2d6 + AC + Weapon Class + Ability (if any) vs. 14
4. Ability scores are not 3-18, but -3 to +3. You add your full ability to checks.
5. The combat mechanic also serves as a universal mechanic--everything works on 2d6 + Ability + difficulty vs. 14. This includes saving throws.

It's going to need some playtesting, but a lot of what I'm doing is based on the way we've been playing my Age of Conan game for a long time, so playtesting, you could say, has been going on for years and I'm just formally implementing it all. Things that still need thoroughly tested:

Wounds instead of hit points of damage.
Purchasing character levels.

I'm fairly pleased with how it's coming along, though.

[Finarvyn]

2E is based on O.G.R.E.S., right? Be nice to have an edition which is compatible with NIGHT SHIFT.

[thegreyelf]

Jun 8, 2020 15:28:26 GMT -6 Finarvyn said:

2E is based on O.G.R.E.S., right? Be nice to have an edition which is compatible with NIGHT SHIFT.

No, 2E S&S is the revised O.R.C.S. system.

There will be a fantasy game based on O.G.R.E.S.--Wasted Lands: The Dreaming Age.

It will also have an appendix for using it with O.R.C.S. so people can choose the setting they prefer.

Alternately, I may simply release O.G.R.E.S. Fantasy as a setting-free core rulebook, and Wasted Lands as a setting book including rules for both systems.

I really want to move towards getting all three of my house systems out into the wild, and will then move towards supporting all three.

[jeffb]

So essentially the 2nd edition of S&S is no longer operating under the "what if... Chainmail?" premise.....? This seems to be a pretty radical departure Jason (not that it's good or bad, just an observation)

[thegreyelf]

Jun 9, 2020 7:16:52 GMT -6 jeffb said:

So essentially the 2nd edition of S&S is no longer operating under the "what if... Chainmail?" premise.....? This seems to be a pretty radical departure Jason (not that it's good or bad, just an observation)

Well, yes and no. That's one of the reasons I'm agonizing with whether to just leave first edition up for sale (even if unsupported).

S&S Second Edition is really going to become its own animal, as will the O.R.C.S. system. It's a major, major overhaul of the game that has grown out of literally 10 years of play in my home Age of Conan campaign.

Aside from renaming the ability scores and spells (Which honestly is being done for the sole reason of divorcing myself from the need for the OGL--you'll be able to easily intuit which is which, for the most part), it's still taking a sort of "What If...Chainmail?" approach but is based on a different KIND of interpretation.

This one is looking to remove the need to consult a table with every roll, replacing it with a simple calculation based on weapon class and further abstracted from the general trends of the tables. It's also looking at the idea that in Chainmail, characters take hits, not points of damage. A Hero, for example, can take 4 hits to be killed.

The use of ability scores to resolve non-combat tasks exists already in S&S first edition, so that's not much of a change. But the -3 to +3 scale of ability scores mirrors the B/X range of ability bonuses. I'm just eliminating the (rather pointless) 3-18 scale and replacing it with the bonus AS the ability score.

Finally, I'm going to redirect it towards a more classic Swords and Sorcery focus. Instead of traditional fantasy races, you'll have "proto-cultures," so like proto-Celtic, proto-Egyptian, proto-Norse, primitive tribesmen, horse cultures, etc. Elves, Dwarves, Gnomes, and Halflings are going to be offered as optional races in an appendix for those who want to explore traditional high fantasy tropes.

The short version is, it's a heavy streamlining of what's there that will be more attractive to those looking for something that's intuitive and fast playing, and the ability to buy levels of individual classes allows for a degree of character customization. I looked at the way we were PLAYING the game and went, "okay, how can I streamline this and remove extraneous bits for smoother presentation and play?" Much like the original S&S, it's an experiment that turned into a whole game. I'm betting people will dig it when it's ready to go.

[jeffb]

Thanks for the details Jason. I'm looking forward to checking it out.

I get the "tables" aspect from sitting at the table and running a game. But that also is part of the OSR charm I guess for many.

I'm a firm believer in getting rid of ability scores. Having run D&D games for many young kids and a few adults who were completely unfamiliar with anything but boardgames (not even video gaming), having scores and the bonuses is just added confusion and baggage I've had to explain too many times for no useful reason and it's a waste of time *

Ken ST. Andre and Steve Perrin got it right- use the scores themselves in some way if you are going to have scores.



* unless you use "roll under" for ability checks on a d20 or somesuch, which I just don't care for.

[thegreyelf]

Jun 10, 2020 7:57:52 GMT -6 jeffb said:

Thanks for the details Jason. I'm looking forward to checking it out.

I get the "tables" aspect from sitting at the table and running a game. But that also is part of the OSR charm I guess for many.

For some, yes, but my experience shows that more people would dump the tables if they could, than are married to them.

Jun 10, 2020 7:57:52 GMT -6 jeffb said:

I'm a firm believer in getting rid of ability scores. Having run D&D games for many young kids and a few adults who were completely unfamiliar with anything but boardgames (not even video gaming), having scores and the bonuses is just added confusion and baggage I've had to explain too many times for no useful reason and it's a waste of time *

Ken ST. Andre and Steve Perrin got it right- use the scores themselves in some way if you are going to have scores.

* unless you use "roll under" for ability checks on a d20 or somesuch, which I just don't care for.

Agreed 100%. That's one of the reasons I'm replacing them with scores of -3 to +3, with 0 being the average.

Jun 10, 2020 9:38:49 GMT -6 @sean said:

I like the 'characters take hits', 'buying levels' ideas, and using protocultures rather than trad races.

Yeah, in some ways it's a merging of new school with old school, allowing the purchasing of levels, but the hits could be argued to go all the way back to Chainmail, and the proto-cultures are my take on Conan with the serial numbers filed off.