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Post by tdenmark on Apr 28, 2020 5:23:30 GMT -6
This is being pulled over from another thread where I was discussing turning the classic Edgar Rice Burroughs' novel A Princess of Mars into an Adventure for classic DnD, OSR Retro-Clones like Swords & Wizardry, or Warriors of the Red Planet. In the intro to that adventure I found myself writing a mini Western RPG. It deserves its own thread. I'm providing the text free to anyone interested, you are welcome to comment and suggest. One problem I find with Western RPG's is that there is so much lore. Too much lore. There are hundreds of notorious characters, gold rush towns, native tribes, and so much history to go through. So with Gunslinger I'm bringing the focus to one particularly notorious territory: Graham County Arizona. The reason for this was that is where A Princess of Mars begins. But it is also a great location with rugged terrain, a cavalry fort, and where the Apache wars took place. This allows focus and also a deep dive on one particular tribe: the White Mountain Apaches. Also Tombstone where the OK Corral is located is just a hop skip and a jump south of Fort Graham if you want to dive into that fascinating lore. Here is the working document, it is still super rough, but came together surprisingly fast. In essence it is similar to my other OSR RPG's like Warriors of the Red Planet and Freebooters, I am also becoming increasingly influenced by some of the mechanics I like from 5th edition. Gunslinger RPG - WORK IN PROGRESS |
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Post by Finarvyn on Apr 28, 2020 8:38:19 GMT -6
I like where this is headed, and I would think that Gunslinger could become a starting point for the Princess of Mars adventure. Then, when the adventure shifts to Mars the rules could shift to WotRP with minimal conversion.  |
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Post by Piper on Apr 28, 2020 9:00:22 GMT -6
I gave it a quick read. Nice work!
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Post by asaki on Apr 28, 2020 14:49:27 GMT -6
Sounds pretty cool. I was looking at this one, but haven't run it yet: www.drivethrurpg.com/product/119688/Westhingyer-RPG-No-art-versionIt's based more on B/X, and has an alternate history with orcs/goblins mixed in (kind of like Shadowrun, I suppose). I have a bunch of old cowboys & Indians figures I want to use, but my nephew kind of confiscated them...I also want to use the old Sears & Roebuck Catalogue (though it might be just a couple decades too modern, I have the 1909 one). I really, really need to get around to reading more Burroughs, I have a bunch of them...and we named our baby after him (middle name). |
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Post by thegreyelf on Apr 29, 2020 11:29:26 GMT -6
"I am intrigued by your ideas, sir, and would like to subscribe to your pamphlet and/or newsletter!"
--One of my players, trying to distract a fanatical villain.
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Post by tdenmark on Apr 29, 2020 12:29:36 GMT -6
"I am intrigued by your ideas, sir, and would like to subscribe to your pamphlet and/or newsletter!" --One of my players, trying to distract a fanatical villain. Is there a subtext here that's going over my head? |
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Post by thegreyelf on Apr 29, 2020 13:12:04 GMT -6
"I am intrigued by your ideas, sir, and would like to subscribe to your pamphlet and/or newsletter!" --One of my players, trying to distract a fanatical villain. Is there a subtext here that's going over my head? No subtext that I can think of, no. |
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Post by tdenmark on Apr 29, 2020 13:36:56 GMT -6
The classes are stripped down to just two: Fighting Man and Doctor. But more keep calling, not sure if Paths is a satisfactory alternative.
I'm pretty happy with the Critters section and was surprised at just how many there were for the Arizona territory.
The research hole on the Apache is pretty deep, their culture is fascinating and I don't want to get it wrong, but I gotta move on.
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Post by Finarvyn on Apr 29, 2020 14:16:59 GMT -6
This is looking really awesome. I hate to fall too far down the "Boot Hill rabbit hole" but one thing I liked best about BH was the First Shot Chart, used for gunfights. Might be worth including somewhere.  |
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Post by thegreyelf on Apr 29, 2020 15:25:15 GMT -6
This is looking really awesome. I hate to fall too far down the "Boot Hill rabbit hole" but one thing I liked best about BH was the First Shot Chart, used for gunfights. Might be worth including somewhere. I've always really dug the original Boot Hill. Really, the only thing it's missing as far as being a full RPG is rules for experience and advancement. |
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Post by tdenmark on Apr 30, 2020 5:53:58 GMT -6
This is looking really awesome. I hate to fall too far down the "Boot Hill rabbit hole" but one thing I liked best about BH was the First Shot Chart, used for gunfights. Might be worth including somewhere. That's the kind of great feedback I was hoping for. Thanks! |
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Post by tdenmark on Apr 30, 2020 5:55:11 GMT -6
I like where this is headed, and I would think that Gunslinger could become a starting point for the Princess of Mars adventure. Then, when the adventure shifts to Mars the rules could shift to WotRP with minimal conversion. My hope is that no conversion is necessary, just seamless continuous play. But with Radium Pistols and 9th Ray technology of course! |
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Post by Finarvyn on Apr 30, 2020 6:33:49 GMT -6
This is looking really awesome. I hate to fall too far down the "Boot Hill rabbit hole" but one thing I liked best about BH was the First Shot Chart, used for gunfights. Might be worth including somewhere. I've always really dug the original Boot Hill. Really, the only thing it's missing as far as being a full RPG is rules for experience and advancement. Well, a gunfighter's ability to get off a first shot ties in to his number of gunfights survived, so there is essentially an advancement mechanic there. |
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Post by thegreyelf on Apr 30, 2020 6:46:09 GMT -6
I've always really dug the original Boot Hill. Really, the only thing it's missing as far as being a full RPG is rules for experience and advancement. Well, a gunfighter's ability to get off a first shot ties in to his number of gunfights survived, so there is essentially an advancement mechanic there. True, but it's not really robust in the sense of a true RPG. BH has the bones of an RPG, complete with skills and character development, but then the only advancement is first shot based on gunfights survived. |
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tec97
Level 4 Theurgist
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Post by tec97 on May 4, 2020 11:26:17 GMT -6
I played in an extremely enjoyable Western Hero campaign back in the early-mid 90s. Hero System, especially before it turned into what it is today, lent itself extremely well to the 'talented normal' type of game, and the flexibility of the system made it extremely easy to incorporate fantasy/sci-fi/horror elements if that was desired.
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Post by thegreyelf on May 4, 2020 13:57:56 GMT -6
If you really want a great Wild West game, Amazing Adventures is all you need  . |
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tec97
Level 4 Theurgist
Posts: 157
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Post by tec97 on May 4, 2020 14:12:28 GMT -6
If you really want a great Wild West game, Amazing Adventures is all you need . I could see that. |
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Post by thegreyelf on May 4, 2020 16:57:44 GMT -6
If you really want a great Wild West game, Amazing Adventures is all you need . I could see that. The Amazing Adventures Companion has a Gunslinger character class and a section devoted strictly to Wild West gaming. |
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Post by Punkrabbitt on May 4, 2020 18:05:28 GMT -6
Not to hijack this topic with conversation thereof, but is there a link that might tell me more about Amazing Adventures?
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Post by Finarvyn on May 5, 2020 6:34:58 GMT -6
Apologies if I come off as a fanboy here, but I stumbled upon Amazing Adventures long before I knew Jason and it's a fantastic game, so I thought I would take a few minutes to gush about it here. Amazing Adventures was originally released as a "pulp" RPG. I bought in for the original kickstart years ago, then picked up the Companion book and pretty much everything written for the game. You can play straight pulp, but my favorite way to do it is to emulate Robert E Howard's style of play, and there are some essays in the Companion book that talk about this. AA can be a 1920's gangster game, a Cthulhu game, a pulp game, and a Western game. There are rules for magic and spellcasting classes if you like that element of the game. It is similar to Castles & Crusades so it is built on the 3E SRD but the feel is a lot more like AD&D in the way it plays. I often use C&C material in my AA games. A new version went through kickstart and it's set up to be 5E compatible, as well as a more universal game system so much of the "pulp" has been removed. (I have mixed feelings about this, as the pulp aspect is what drew me to the game in the first place.) My game group did some playtesting of the 5E version and we liked it quite a bit. As a backer I already have the 5E PDF and I'm really looking forward to getting my hands on my printed copy of this. Here is a review of the game. (The original version) www.rpg.net/reviews/archive/15/15953.phtmlTHe C&C-compatible version can be bought in PDF here, but the 5E version should be out soon. www.drivethrurpg.com/product/106153/Amazing-AdventuresSome discussion on the Troll Lord Games boards www.trolllord.com/forums/viewforum.php?f=32I think you can get the quickplay rules for the original edition here: trolllord.com/downloads/pdfs/TLG%2076161%20Menace%20of%20the%20Serpent%20God%20Digital.pdfAnd the 5E preview is here: tlgstoremobile.ecwid.com/Amazing-Adventures-5e-RPG-Preview-p140130085- - - - - EDIT: I see that TLG ha a PDF bundle of the original booklets. Usually $61, currently $10.  www.trolllord.com/tlgstore/#!/Amazing-Adventures/c/11639154/offset=0&sort=normal |
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Post by Punkrabbitt on May 5, 2020 8:08:15 GMT -6
Thank you!
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Post by tdenmark on May 6, 2020 19:36:16 GMT -6
Thanks for bringing up Amazing Adventures. I wasn't familiar with it and have become increasingly interested in old-school treatments of 5th edition. Skimming their Amazing Adventures 5e preview it looks really good.
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Post by tdenmark on May 6, 2020 19:40:40 GMT -6
Also, I just downloaded the Tombstone RPG. It is free on Lulu (which was an annoying experience, they have somehow made their terrible interface and customer experience even worse). I'm not all that interested in the system itself, but it is well done - especially for a free RPG! And it reminds me why I was hesitant to make a western OSR RPG, not that I don't love the genre, but that there are already so many great solutions. But I had some specific needs to fill with Gunslinger. |
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Post by tdenmark on May 13, 2020 23:20:49 GMT -6
 Boothill came out in 1975, just one year after the original D&D. It describes turn order and combat far better than D&D books did at the time. First Shot is one of the best mechanics described in the game. It may be one of the best initiative systems designed.  There are complications added to First Shot in the Advanced Combat section, but I prefer this original straight forward version. I have a more detailed write up of the original Boot Hill on my blog. |
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Post by tdenmark on May 20, 2021 16:14:35 GMT -6
The classes are stripped down to just two: Fighting Man and Doctor. But more keep calling, not sure if Paths is a satisfactory alternative. I'm pretty happy with the Critters section and was surprised at just how many there were for the Arizona territory. The research hole on the Apache is pretty deep, their culture is fascinating and I don't want to get it wrong, but I gotta move on. God help me, I'm still reading books on the Apache, the Apache Wars, and Arizona history. This stuff is amazing. Also, since this is no longer a Boot Hill retroclone I'm going to move the discussion back to the Princess of the Red Planet Adventure thread. This wild west weird science RPG is getting close to done. Well, as a "beta" anyways. Played it on the weekend with some friends and it was a blast. Stopped a stagecoach robbery, found some mysterious gadgets, and decoded a strange message from another world that gave some clues to something larger. |
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Post by tdenmark on May 20, 2021 16:40:09 GMT -6
Well, a gunfighter's ability to get off a first shot ties in to his number of gunfights survived, so there is essentially an advancement mechanic there. True, but it's not really robust in the sense of a true RPG. BH has the bones of an RPG, complete with skills and character development, but then the only advancement is first shot based on gunfights survived. It never ceases to irk me that TSR didn't turn their multiple genre explorations into one Universal RPG and they let GURPS beat them to it, in 1986 no less. |
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Post by thegreyelf on May 21, 2021 6:55:14 GMT -6
True, but it's not really robust in the sense of a true RPG. BH has the bones of an RPG, complete with skills and character development, but then the only advancement is first shot based on gunfights survived. It never ceases to irk me that TSR didn't turn their multiple genre explorations into one Universal RPG and they let GURPS beat them to it, in 1986 no less. No doubt. And GURPS, for all its importance in what it tried to do, is just a nightmare of fiddly bits to make it work with other genres of play. I think I've shown on my blog with the Star Wars, Buffy, and other conversions that OD&D was already ripe for multi-genre use. Hell, the glut of OSR sci-fi, post-apocalyptic, modern, etc. games out there (including my own Night Shift: VSW) prove it. They just never pursued it. |
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Post by tdenmark on May 21, 2021 14:54:59 GMT -6
It never ceases to irk me that TSR didn't turn their multiple genre explorations into one Universal RPG and they let GURPS beat them to it, in 1986 no less. No doubt. And GURPS, for all its importance in what it tried to do, is just a nightmare of fiddly bits to make it work with other genres of play. I think I've shown on my blog with the Star Wars, Buffy, and other conversions that OD&D was already ripe for multi-genre use. Hell, the glut of OSR sci-fi, post-apocalyptic, modern, etc. games out there (including my own Night Shift: VSW) prove it. They just never pursued it. The TSR designers were embarrassed by the classes and levels system of OD&D because all the cool kids were using skill systems by the 80's. So they kept trying to make classless RPG's with little success. Except maybe FASERIP, which was ingenious for Marvel as long as you are playing pre-made characters and don't expect much character progression. We see now that Classes and Levels are the best system for an RPG and it took computer RPG gaming to prove it. Palladium essentially made their system universal and that was little more than a homebrewed D&D variant. And they had a lot of success with multiple genres until shady business practices put them under. Robotech and TMNT are some of the best 80's RPG's IMHO. |
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Post by thegreyelf on May 21, 2021 16:20:27 GMT -6
Thanks for this, Fin! I somehow missed it until TODAY. To add another link, the official Amazing Adventures Facebook group: www.facebook.com/groups/amazingadventuresAnd as of this writing (5/21/2021) all 3 Amazing Adventures hardcovers are on sale as a bundle for $30. It's A-MAY-Zing Adventures month, after all! |
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Deleted
Deleted Member
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Post by Deleted on May 22, 2021 10:14:21 GMT -6
Amazing Adventures is basically the OSR version of d20 Modern. Uses the SIEGE mechanic from Castles & Crusades, so if you know that game you get the mechanical jist.
My biggest gripe with Troll Lord Games is similar to my gripe with Frog God. They're somewhat complacent with their editing. The same typos and errata from the earliest print runs persist through each subsequent edition. It would be super simple to hire a proofreader. I like both games and the people who put them out but this is a major pet peeve for me.
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