Playing with just the 3 LBBs.

[aldarron]

Apr 22, 2020 2:38:24 GMT -6 rsdean said:

Apr 18, 2020 15:29:42 GMT -6 Starbeard said:

True. Even before you hit the ground, there are decisions to be made. Will combat be adjudicated using Chainmail, or will you opt for the new d20 matrix? In either case, how will you determine who goes first in the initiative and attack sequence: Chainmail, Supplements, articles, later editions, or make it up? The moment a player buys a torch or wolfsbane with starting gold, how are you going to handle the details of how those work: backport from later editions or make it up?

So, without going back down the multiple attacks rabbit hole again, that is clearly an example of a rule which is alluded to but not filled out. Has anyone here ever done a list of what decisions a DM would have to make in order to run “BTB”? BITD, I had the FAQ from the Strategic Review and Greyhawk pretty shortly after getting the 3LBBs, so there were a bunch of gaps filled in for me. Between work and the plague, I haven’t had time to start my next OD&D game to try this by experiment rather than theory...

Do you mean a DM now or a DM then? I'm asking because some of things a BitD DM wouldn't even know they should make a decision about. Such a DM would no doubt operate on some of their own assumptions. Initiative is a good example. The 3lbb's don't hint that there could be such a thing so it is likely the DM would just assume the players get to move first. Likewise, a DM might assume a player could pick any spell in the list when they wanted to use up a spell slot. etc.

[rsdean]

I meant a DM today; we often see someone here announce an intention to run by the book, and I would hope by now that we would already have a list of rules decisions you would have to make in order to somehow do that.

[dicebro]

Vol l.
A. Forward
1. The rules are designed for a “campaign”
2. Miniatures are not required
3. The referee will need time and imagination

B. Introduction
1.These “rules” are not complete

2. The rules are Guidelines
a. A framework to be Developed
b. The referee can make the rules simple or complex
c. the rules, or “laws”, can be changed

3. The players interact with the referee’s campaign
a. This makes the campaign variable
b. “ “ the campaign unique

4. Advice to referees
a. Start slow
b. The campaign should build naturally

5. Advice to Players
a. The referee can make changes to the rules and/or tables
b. Note them in pencil because they can Possibly change again 

(I'm endeavoring to create an outline of the original 3 volume set on another thread)

[Deleted]

Some of the problems @finarvyn ran into are the reason I like using the OD&D teaching sheet. It has a few weird quirks like slightly off saving throw categories and thac0 but it lays down exactly what a 3lbb player should expect at the table. I've been meaning to get around to going into an editing software and adjusting it slightly to make my own version that's closer to 3lbb, but honestly this is good enough for players. The original idea from Blackmoor is that players don't need rules to play, anyway. I don't believe in going that hardcore because it puts them at a distinct disadvantage in some areas, as when it comes to spells or magic items especially, but for general play something like this suffices as a launching off point. If they're still trying to apply assumptions after being given a simple reference sheet like this then it's probably a power gamer or cheap person we're dealing with and not a simple misunderstanding. 

[dicebro]

Apr 18, 2020 8:34:57 GMT -6 Finarvyn said:

I tried running a pure 3-LBB game last month but my players kept trying to add in rules so eventually I decided to scrap it and go back to 5E.

Dumb things, like the player with an 8 INT whining about not being allowed to play a Magic-user. "You can play one," I said. "Stop trying to put artificial limitations on the game. A character with 8 intelligence has no minuses to be a spellcaster, only minuses on experience." Didn't help. They just kept trying to enforce what they "know" on each other.

It would almost be better if you had a group of players who had never experienced an RPG before. Like in 1974...

Seems like it’s impossible to un-ring a bell?  My sympathies. I have found that I love the 3LBs all by themselves.  But it’s easier said than done for players to set aside what they know from other games.  Like when a player says, “my wisdom is only 5, so my character can’t  do blah blah blah.”  I have almost given up responding with “the score doesn’t affect your choice, it only affects a Cleric’s EXP.”  it’s crazy, nowhere does it say that a character is foolish based on a low wisdom score. Even a score of 3 means a character is competent to explore a dungeon, to shoot a bow, strong enough to carry 3000 coins and move 3”, and even cast spells.  Heh, sorry bout the rant.

[Deleted]

It's almost better to start complete neophytes to tabletop on OD&D rather than someone who's learned a newer kind. I feel like people who haven't been spoiled on everything being on the character sheet are more easily able to go with the "just play pretend you're an Elf and tell me what you're doing."