Stellar Wars by Bruce Loren Miller

[thegreyelf]

So I was flipping through an old Dragon Magazine article this morning and I came across this game called Stellar Wars by Bruce Loren Miller. It seems to have been published in 1977 by Fantasy & Hobby Sales Mfg. and was a set of rules for starship fleet miniatures combat. At first all I found about it was a page on Board Game Geek: boardgamegeek.com/boardgame/233626/stellar-wars

Here's the cover:


A quick bit of searching, however, brought up a copy on eBay for a very affordable 18 bucks in apparently great condition, so I grabbed it.

My question here is...has anyone got any experience with it? What do I have to look forward to? How is the system?

[thegreyelf]

My copy arrived today. It is VERY browned with age (ah the old non-acid-free paper of the 70s), but otherwise in very good condition. It feels a bit brittle in hand, but bends well without creasing or breaking so it's in pretty good shape. The tables insert is included as well.

I haven't read it in detail; just did a quick flip-though. My first impressions:

1. OMG, there are SQUARE ROOTS in this. Clearly the guy was a math geek. That'll be the first workaround I'll need to figure.

2. Right off the bat I got a chuckle at this:

"These ruels are written in Metric measurements. it is possible to convert the Metric measurements into the more cumbersone inches and feet of the English system if desired.... You should remember that the United States is changing its measuring conventions from English to the Metric, so it is recommended to buy a Metric tape measure if you don't already have one; it would be much easier."

OOPS, he sure got that one wrong, didn't he? Wonder if Miller is still alive and what he thinks of that statement now?

[Finarvyn]

I'll be interested to see what you think of this. I think a friend of mine has/had this game but I never got a chance to look at it. If it's decent I may contact him and see what he wants for it.

[thegreyelf]

Started reading it last night.

For a booklet published in its era (1977) it's very well done. The organization is off--building your ship, for example, starts the book, but then cuts off for the full rules system, then continues with the rules for equipping your ship. I suspect it was a bit stream of consciousness for the author. The system is very clear and very well explained; it is, however, WAY too math-y for my tastes. There's tons of algebra and even cube roots involved. There are also some odd systems like those for light speed, which would have your ship traveling meters of space on a board (combined with the assumption that you're using a board), meaning you'd need huge play spaces to work the game. There also seems to be an assumption that you'll be doing other things besides fighting battles, but not a lot of guidance on what those things might be.

It will require some work to use it for what I need, but it'll be a great jumping-off point which is what I needed.

I think, if you don't mind the calculations, it's a very strong system, definitely worth a read and I'm not remotely sorry I bought it. It'll be a solid addition to the collection.

[Finarvyn]

I think that maybe a cube root chart could help. I say this without actually seeing the rules, but I'm thinking that if the equations seem to get in the way a lot then a chart might be useful.

[thegreyelf]

Miller is without a doubt a math geek who gets off on the "numbers" aspect of game design. His rules are robust and simulationist; the system is definitely designed to make you pay attention to the system instead of one that fades into the background. So people that like a lot of crunch will dig it. People like me that prefer simple calculations with fast play and intuitive rules, not so much. It's an interesting look into the history of the hobby, because we tend to feel like the attitude that a rule is needed for everything to be a younger gamer, new-school approach, but this definitely exemplifies an effort to account for every situation that could come up, and it's all based on calculations instead of a unified system.

[Finarvyn]

Okay, so I'm intrigued. I talked to my friend and he's pretty sure he still has his copy. If so, he thought we could work out a deal and he would mail it to me ASAP. That way I can reply more intelligently to this thread.

[thegreyelf]

FWIW, I paid $18 for mine, and Noble Knight has it for $20. Given Noble Knight's M.O. of artificially inflating collector's market values, $20 is probably way high for the actual value.

(...says the guy who just encouraged them by shelling out over $300 for a first printing of Tractics plus a copy of Fast Rules on eBay).

[Otto Harkaman]

Love the logo

[thegreyelf]

That's the exact ad that turned me onto the game.

[Finarvyn]

Funny to see your posts side by side, Jason.
(1) "a very affordable 18 bucks"
(2) "$20 is probably way high for the actual value"

So $18 is affordable but $20 is way high.

I got my friend's copy in the mail yesterday. He and I agreed that I could look at it and decide what I thought it was worth. I guess I'll offer him $19 if I like it.

- - - - -

EDIT: I wish I had realized that Noble Knight had one for $20 because I might have just bought from them and saved myself the problem of later negotiations. Just for fun I took a look at an online "inflation calculator." Rulebook says $5 and made in 1977, and inflation calculator says that $5.00 in 1977 equates to $21.30 in 2020. www.in2013dollars.com/us/inflation/1977

[Finarvyn]

By the way, my friend said that he didn't think this had yellowed with age. He thinks it was printed on cream-colored paper and has had a yellow color to it from day one.

When looking at the thing it looks pretty uniform in color instead of faded in spots. (The insert sheet, on the other hand, is clearly white and aging at the edges and where it was folded in the middle.) For the booklet, the paper looks new and crisp, and had I not known its history I might have suspected it to be a later recreation. I'm looking at a "First Edition - September 1977." Sadly, the copy that I have looks like it was stored next to something with an odd shape and there are funny intended oval shapes on the back cover (and a few pages into the back side of the booklet).

I retyped the insert sheet so that I can handle something without damaging the original further.

[Finarvyn]

Another thing of note as I start to skim through this thing is that the cover has a space fighter and space station which clearly are inspired by the X-wing and Death Star from Star Wars, yet the rules continually reference phasers and photon torpedoes from Star Trek. I'm wondering if B.L. Miller was trying to build a rules set to bridge the two franchises.

I have no idea if I will ever play this, but it's a fun read so far.

[thegreyelf]

Apr 18, 2020 4:46:26 GMT -6 Finarvyn said:

Funny to see your posts side by side, Jason.
(1) "a very affordable 18 bucks"
(2) "$20 is probably way high for the actual value"

So $18 is affordable but $20 is way high.

I got my friend's copy in the mail yesterday. He and I agreed that I could look at it and decide what I thought it was worth. I guess I'll offer him $19 if I like it.

- - - - -

EDIT: I wish I had realized that Noble Knight had one for $20 because I might have just bought from them and saved myself the problem of later negotiations. Just for fun I took a look at an online "inflation calculator." Rulebook says $5 and made in 1977, and inflation calculator says that $5.00 in 1977 equates to $21.30 in 2020. www.in2013dollars.com/us/inflation/1977

Hey, in fairness, I called myself on just that fact by saying, "Says the guy who just paid them $300 for Tractics and Fast Rules" .

Apr 18, 2020 7:49:46 GMT -6 Finarvyn said:

Another thing of note as I start to skim through this thing is that the cover has a space fighter and space station which clearly are inspired by the X-wing and Death Star from Star Wars, yet the rules continually reference phasers and photon torpedoes from Star Trek. I'm wondering if B.L. Miller was trying to build a rules set to bridge the two franchises.

I have no idea if I will ever play this, but it's a fun read so far.

I think his goal was to bridge ALL franchises. I see this as an effort, in some ways, to finally answer the question of "who would win in a fight? The Enterprise or a Star Destroyer?"

[Finarvyn]

It's interesting, also, to put things into timeline context. Star Wars was released in May, 1977, and Stellar Wars in September, 1977. Just 3-4 months in between the two.

[Otto Harkaman]

Apr 19, 2020 7:54:29 GMT -6 Finarvyn said:

It's interesting, also, to put things into timeline context. Star Wars was released in May, 1977, and Stellar Wars in September, 1977. Just 3-4 months in between the two.

I was wondering just that question

[thegreyelf]

Well from what I can tell, Stellar Wars was released literally by a gaming store, not an actual publishing company. So it's possible that Miller had been using these rules at the store for some time, and made a few additions to specifically represent Star Wars, then had someone slap a Star Wars-esque cover on it. It probably took them a day to run off copies at a local printer.

[Finarvyn]

Yeah, it's funny that Stellar Wars may have gotten more discussion in the past week here than all-time on any message boards from 1977-2019. (Okay, so message boards weren't around in '77, but you get the idea.)

I can see Bruce Loren Miller sitting around googling himself and then saying, "hey, someone bought my game! Wait! At least two people have copies!"

[thegreyelf]

Apr 20, 2020 6:32:49 GMT -6 Finarvyn said:

Yeah, it's funny that Stellar Wars may have gotten more discussion in the past week here than all-time on any message boards from 1977-2019. (Okay, so message boards weren't around in '77, but you get the idea.)

I can see Bruce Loren Miller sitting around googling himself and then saying, "hey, someone bought my game! Wait! At least two people have copies!"

They had early BBS's in '77 .

That would be funny if he were to show up here after googling himself.

[Hawklord]

Apr 19, 2020 17:56:59 GMT -6 Otto Harkaman said:

Apr 19, 2020 7:54:29 GMT -6 Finarvyn said:

It's interesting, also, to put things into timeline context. Star Wars was released in May, 1977, and Stellar Wars in September, 1977. Just 3-4 months in between the two.

I was wondering just that question

I have a copy of Stellar Wars (so there are at least three people who own the game!) and yes, this is a very early game to have Star Wars content. In fact, it may have been the first Star Wars-related tabletop game to be released (licensed or otherwise). Kenner's Electronic Laser Battle Game and Escape from Death Star hit the toy stores in the fall of '77, about the same time Stellar Wars was published.

I recently wrote an magazine article about the history of games where you can destroy the Death Star for Star Wars Insider issue #195 Feb/Mar 2020. I wrote the following blurb about it, but this ended up being cut from the article:

"The unlicensed Stellar Wars (1977) rule booklet for 1:3000 scale miniature spaceship battles includes statistics for ships from Star Wars and the Space: 1999 TV show. However, it doesn’t explain how to use the Death Star in the game as at that scale, its figure would be over 175 feet (53 m) across and take trillions of hits of damage to destroy."

[Finarvyn]

Hawklord, I don't think I ever told you this, but -- you have an awesome avatar! Indiana Jones hat on a Jawa!

Okay, back to regular discussion.

Apr 21, 2020 14:36:15 GMT -6 Hawklord said:

"The unlicensed Stellar Wars (1977) rule booklet for 1:3000 scale miniature spaceship battles includes statistics for ships from Star Wars and the Space: 1999 TV show. However, it doesn’t explain how to use the Death Star in the game as at that scale, its figure would be over 175 feet (53 m) across and take trillions of hits of damage to destroy."

(emphasis mine) I've only skimmed the thing, but I didn't realize that Space: 1999 ships are in there!

Oh, and that "scale Death Star" model would be pretty impressive.

[thegreyelf]

Apr 21, 2020 14:36:15 GMT -6 Hawklord said:

Apr 19, 2020 17:56:59 GMT -6 Otto Harkaman said:

I was wondering just that question

I have a copy of Stellar Wars (so there are at least three people who own the game!) and yes, this is a very early game to have Star Wars content. In fact, it may have been the first Star Wars-related tabletop game to be released (licensed or otherwise). Kenner's Electronic Laser Battle Game and Escape from Death Star hit the toy stores in the fall of '77, about the same time Stellar Wars was published.

I recently wrote an magazine article about the history of games where you can destroy the Death Star for Star Wars Insider issue #195 Feb/Mar 2020. I wrote the following blurb about it, but this ended up being cut from the article:

"The unlicensed Stellar Wars (1977) rule booklet for 1:3000 scale miniature spaceship battles includes statistics for ships from Star Wars and the Space: 1999 TV show. However, it doesn’t explain how to use the Death Star in the game as at that scale, its figure would be over 175 feet (53 m) across and take trillions of hits of damage to destroy."

Nah, the Death Star requres only one hit of damage to destroy. You just have to make sure that hit is well delivered precisely to the thermal exhaust port.

[Finarvyn]

It's like one of those giant balloons at the Macy's parade. Really huge, but only one hit point. Love it!

[Hawklord]

Apr 21, 2020 15:03:24 GMT -6 Finarvyn said:

Hawklord, I don't think I ever told you this, but -- you have an awesome avatar! Indiana Jones hat on a Jawa!

Thanks! I just felt like combining Lucasfilm properties.

[DungeonDevil]

Complexity-wise, how does it stack up next to, say, Space Quest?

Fee-bay has one for around $180 and Ignoble Knight has one for around $70 -- all too pricey for this impecunious tribble-smuggler.


If this quarantine drags out any longer I may succumb to the madness of making a 175-foot diameter Death Star out of paper mache.

[Finarvyn]

I don't think I know anything about Space Quest, or at least I am drawing a blank at the moment, so I don't think I can offer any sort of comparison.