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Post by thomden on Nov 30, 2019 23:54:24 GMT -6
Let me just lay it out there. I didn't like Star Wars anymore. I didn't just not like the new Star Wars movies, I hated them. That sounds strong, even hyperbolic, but it is an accurate description of my feelings about them. While I wasn't wild about the prequels I can't say I hated them. There were even some things I liked about them. At least they tried hard to show us something new.
These new ones though, ugh. I don't even know where to start. Force Awakens was a milquetoast rehash of a New Hope with not very good storytelling. The Last Jedi that really revolted me. I had this visceral negative reaction in my gut. The other two, Rogue One and Solo were just blah. Yeah, there were a couple cool moments in Rogue One, and the last half was okay. I did like the droid, he was cool. I questioned whether or not I even liked Star Wars at all anymore. I'm not knocking the technicians who worked on these films. The art, designs, cinematography and all are professionally done. But whoever is in charge, making the decisions, well...
They feel like they're made by someone who saw Star Wars once 40 years ago and didn't really like it.
So my youngest daughter wanted to see the original because she doesn't understand why anyone likes Star Wars. Both my kids don't like any of the new movies and neither do their friends at school (its all about Harry Potter, Marvel, and Pokemon these days). At her behest I pulled out my old disc of A New Hope and realized I hadn't watched it in nearly 8 years. Which is how old my daughter was, had she really never seen the original? The disc I have is the original theatrical release. None of that special edition nonsense. Solo shoots first, no weird CG messing up the aesthetic, and no Maclunkey!
Many people don't know you can find the original on DVD. It's on a special edition set from a while back that has it on a bonus disc. Thing is, it is a middling quality transfer so it will piss you off knowing that somewhere in the Lucasfilm archives they must have a pristine copy of the original that could be put on blu-ray in glorious high definition, but they refuse to for whatever reasons. However it is still parsecs better than any special edition.
So I play it on the projector, we have a nice surround sound and screen that gives a bit of that theater feel at home. The previous owner of our house was an audiophile and he'd installed a great system, a wonderful perk that came with our place.
Immediately I was reminded why I loved Star Wars as a kid. Watching it with your own children brings back that magic in a way. As an adult I got to appreciate the incredible set designs, the exquisite pacing, the unfolding of the story, each actor's expressions and their chemistry, the edits are so good. As the pod hurtles spinning towards Tatooine the cut to inside has that same spin looking out the porthole at the massive Star Destroyer and it convinces you of the reality of this situation. There are so many little details like that. It stood out to me how every cut connects, between audio that sounds like it's over a radio to a close up with the voice normal like you're in the cockpit with the pilot. This movie should have been a disaster, but everything came out so perfect. You get transported to that galaxy far away. It isn't just nostalgia, the film is a masterpiece.
So I can report back that yes, even after 40 or so years A New Hope isn't too bad. And my daughters liked it too.
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Post by captainjapan on Dec 1, 2019 2:19:39 GMT -6
I am too young to have seen the original in the theater, but I once had a nice home theater like you do. Before I was married, I invited my future wife and some of her friends to watch Star Wars. It was a riot. The moment that Imperial Star Destroyer appeared on screen, chasing the rebel cruiser, we were gobsmacked. On a big screen, Star Wars is quite overwhelming. That's the hook. Star Wars combined two technical elements that made it super compelling. One was motion controlled cameras and the other was Dolby Stereo sound. Motion controlled cameras could sweep over the large models giving the audience a visceral sense of the scale and speed of a space dogfight or a trench run. The Dolby Stereo track raised the level of low frequency sounds to the same perceived volume as the music and dialogue causing people to now literally feel the bass in the theater. It's a killer combination that transformed Star Wars into something akin to a rollercoaster ride. Very novel for it's time.
As for the story, I don't think it was anything special...yet. The plot was pretty straightforward. Because there was a limit on the budget and because Star Wars was pre-'digital effects', more effort probably went into the dialogue and pacing of the film. It sometimes helps a movie, creatively, to have constraints on what is actually physically possible. Or, what is affordable. Having restrictions means that some things only get a few seconds of screen time, stationary, in the background of a shot rather than competing for viewers' attention as one of many digital effects elements in today's films. Sometimes, these scripted elements don't even make it on to the screen. A character will describe something cool and the audience just has to imagine what it must be like. I wanted to see what a Jedi knight was ever since old Ben described them to Luke in the first movie. In the prequels, I could see dozens of them all in the same drawn out battle scene. But, having to speculate about obscure references in the first movies was it's own kind of fun. I don't have any reason to use my imagination when a movie has already made everything explicit.
Finally, I think that Luke, Han, and Leia just had good chemistry. They acted toward each other in a realistic, not-to-familiar way at the beginning. Then their friendship developed through situations that were actually shown during the movie. I get the feeling that I'm being railroaded into accepting the main characters as best friends in the new films. But, they really don't share enough screen time to form the close bonds that they appear to have. I'm not buyin' it.
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Post by geoffrey on Dec 1, 2019 15:46:15 GMT -6
Quite a few people say that there are only two Star Wars films:
Star Wars (1977)
The Empire Strikes Back (1980)
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Post by thomden on Dec 1, 2019 16:57:30 GMT -6
Quite a few people say that there are only two Star Wars films: Star Wars (1977) The Empire Strikes Back (1980) My favorite Star Wars movies in order: 1. A New Hope 2. Empire Strikes Back 3. The rest... I seem to be in the minority in liking ANH better than ESB, but only by a bantha hair. |
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Post by Piper on Dec 1, 2019 20:20:32 GMT -6
I can say with no reservations SW, later renamed SW:ANH, is my favorite of the series. There are things I like about all the films, but SW was the total package. It got everything right (or at least right enough).
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Post by angantyr on Dec 2, 2019 13:26:57 GMT -6
So my youngest daughter wanted to see the original because she doesn't understand why anyone likes Star Wars. Both my kids don't like any of the new movies and neither do their friends at school (its all about Harry Potter, Marvel, and Pokemon these days). At her behest I pulled out my old disc of A New Hope and realized I hadn't watched it in nearly 8 years. Which is how old my daughter was, had she really never seen the original? The disc I have is the original theatrical release. None of that special edition nonsense. Solo shoots first, no weird CG messing up the aesthetic, and no Maclunkey! Many people don't know you can find the original on DVD. It's on a special edition set from a while back that has it on a bonus disc. Thing is, it is a middling quality transfer so it will piss you off knowing that somewhere in the Lucasfilm archives they must have a pristine copy of the original that could be put on blu-ray in glorious high definition, but they refuse to for whatever reasons. However it is still parsecs better than any special edition. Heh, I have the original release on Laserdisc… Mostly agree that special edition is B.S., though I did like how the CGI enhanced the final battle scenes just before and over the Death Star. THAT was cool. But, yeah, Greedo, Jabba, all of the busy crap at Mos Eisley, etc. can be jettisoned out of an airlock without further adieu. My ideal Star Wars would be the original release plus the following: - CGI Death Star battle from New Hope. (yeah, the original holds up just fine, but I enjoyed the added/enhanced stuff) - Add back in all of the Biggs Darklighter stuff that ended up on the cutting room floor, so that he's not just a random NPC that gets shot down over the Death Star (from this thread: odd74.proboards.com/thread/13271/deleted-scenes) (might add other deleted scenes as well, but it was the Biggs material that was a real shame to lose) - Finally, that recent fan generated CGI enhancement of the lightsaber duel between Obi Wan and Vader. Don't have a link, but thought I found it on the boards here somewhere. Really awesome to get that full "this is what happens when two Jedi Masters mix it up" treatment. That's it. I'd be pleased as punch if I could have it! |
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Post by thomden on Dec 2, 2019 16:31:51 GMT -6
- Finally, that recent fan generated CGI enhancement of the lightsaber duel between Obi Wan and Vader. Don't have a link, but thought I found it on the boards here somewhere. Really awesome to get that full "this is what happens when two Jedi Masters mix it up" treatment. I might have to agree with you on that fan enhancement of the Obi Wan & Vader duel. That was really well done and captures the look and feel of classic Star Wars. For those who haven't seen it: www.youtube.com/watch?v=to2SMng4u1k |
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Post by Zenopus on Dec 2, 2019 23:55:50 GMT -6
Thank you both, I hadn't heard about that & it was fun to watch. But I wouldn't want it in the original movie any more than the other Special Edition stuff.
* * * * *
FYI, Disney+ has all of the deleted scenes from the original trilogy that were released on the Blu Ray edition of the movies (which I haven't bought). So I was finally able to see these after hearing about them for decades. The best of the bunch is the Luke & Biggs scene on Tatooine. It took me back to the still of the scene from my Star Wars storybook. Such a treat to see a young Mark Hamill in character as Luke again & in a performance that is seemless with the rest of his acting from the original movie.
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Post by asaki on Dec 3, 2019 7:56:16 GMT -6
I didn't just not like the new Star Wars movies, I hated them. I was pretty bitter that Disney bought them and immediately squatted all over the expanded universe...I mean, I get it, Disney makes a LOT more money when they don't have to pay some geeky old writer royalties for putting Mara Jade on a lunch box...but it's still pretty offensive. I was begrudgingly shown The Force Unleashed, and it was exactly what I was expecting: two hours of forgettable popcorn. I wouldn't say I hated it, but I couldn't tell you what the story was. Mark Hammill and the girl who plays Rey both publicly stated that they disliked the script for Episode 8, so that doesn't exactly sound encouraging to me. I'm halfway tempted to watch Solo, though, just because it was actually a George Lucas project before the sellout. I'm not knocking the technicians who worked on these films. The art, designs, cinematography and all are professionally done. But whoever is in charge, making the decisions, well... Eh, it's just a bunch of suits who know that the toys will sell better when there's a movie to go with them. Many people don't know you can find the original on DVD. It's on a special edition set from a while back that has it on a bonus disc. There are fan preservations of the actual 35mm film "out there". They did a pretty good job cleaning up ANH (including one Technicolor print), and they found a pristine copy of RotJ. ESB is a bit dirty, especially at the heads and tails, but I don't mind at all. They're working on a new scan of it as we speak. There are 16mm and 8mm preservations, too, if you really want to get oldschool. Thing is, it is a middling quality transfer so it will piss you off knowing that somewhere in the Lucasfilm archives they must have a pristine copy of the original that could be put on blu-ray in glorious high definition, but they refuse to for whatever reasons. What will really piss you off is the fact that they don't have the original film negatives anymore, because they kind of destroyed them when they cleaned them and built the 1997 Special Editions out of them. Whoops =) |
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Post by Melan on Dec 3, 2019 11:26:09 GMT -6
I can say with no reservations SW, later renamed SW:ANH, is my favorite of the series. There are things I like about all the films, but SW was the total package. It got everything right (or at least right enough). I am of like mind on the series. Empire may be the best Star Wars movie, but Star Wars is the best movie movie of the lot! (Granted, I am more of a Flash Gordon fan...) |
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Post by Finarvyn on Dec 3, 2019 15:30:49 GMT -6
Quite a few people say that there are only two Star Wars films: Star Wars (1977) The Empire Strikes Back (1980) No, it's a trilogy.  (1) Rogue One (2) Star Wars '77 (3) Empire Strikes Back The biggest problem is that ESB ends as a cliffhanger.  Rogue One is a little odd in places, as Thomden noted, but I think watching the end of R1 and immediately going into SW is really a cool transition as if it is a single movie. That's a lot of fun, I think. As some others have noted, ESB is a great movie. But I think that the original Star Wars is the greatest of them all. Star Wars was amazing when scifi movies were pretty bland. Star Wars had a real soundtrack. Star Wars actually tried to make cool special effects. Star Wars was just freaking amazing. For a while I even forgot that Star Trek was a thing, the original Star Wars was that cool. Sadly, I've seen it so many times that I struggle to sit through it anymore. Especially since all I have on DVD is the expanded "Han didn't shoot first" version, which is really annoying. Even my VHS version is one of those "A New Hope" later versions. Not that my VCR still works, but I just can't part with those old tapes. I'll have to look for an actual Star Wars movie on DVD because I'd like to share it with my kids, too. If you can supply more details on which set has it, I'd be grateful. |
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Post by thomden on Dec 3, 2019 20:24:12 GMT -6
I'll have to look for an actual Star Wars movie on DVD because I'd like to share it with my kids, too. If you can supply more details on which set has it, I'd be grateful. It is the one that says "Exclusive Bonus Material! Includes 1977 Theatrical Version..." With this cover:  Currently $59.99 on Amazon, but you can find copies on eBay for just a few dollars. www.amazon.com/Star-Wars-Episode-IV-Limited/dp/B000FQJAIW |
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Post by thomden on Dec 3, 2019 20:31:54 GMT -6
There are fan preservations of the actual 35mm film "out there". What will really piss you off is the fact that they don't have the original film negatives anymore, because they kind of destroyed them when they cleaned them and built the 1997 Special Editions out of them. Yeah, there are all these fan versions that have been lovingly crafted into "despecialized" editions, each of which have their own problems. But I'd rather just pop a Blu-Ray DVD into my player. I highly doubt LucasFilm doesn't have the negatives in their archives and super high-resolution digital scans of the original print, regardless of rumors or what they may have been said. edit: oh, it's my 100th post here! Yay me. |
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Post by thomden on Dec 3, 2019 20:36:39 GMT -6
I was pretty bitter that Disney bought them and immediately squatted all over the expanded universe.. Haven't you heard? There are no Star Wars comic books or novels to make movies from! |
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Post by asaki on Dec 5, 2019 8:36:32 GMT -6
Yeah, there are all these fan versions that have been lovingly crafted into "despecialized" editions, each of which have their own problems. But I'd rather just pop a Blu-Ray DVD into my player. I don't really follow the Despecialized Editions...I know a lot of people love them, but I feel like the BluRays that they're based on have far too many problems that can't be fixed. I'd rather just watch the 100% original film elements, warts and all. You can burn the 35mms to BluRay disc, BTW, or a DVD (as AVCHD or down-sampled, if you're tech savvy), or a lot of fans will burn it for you for the price of a disc and maybe shipping. A lot of guys print their own disc labels and box art, too. Puggo's 16mms can be burned straight to regular cheapo 4.7 gig single-layer DVDs. Of course, they do show their age (especially SW), but I think they're fun to watch. |
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Post by verhaden on Dec 5, 2019 16:29:14 GMT -6
4k77 is amazing.
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Post by geoffrey on Dec 5, 2019 16:58:42 GMT -6
I own the original trilogy DVDs that have the original versions of the films on bonus disks. (The 1977 Star Wars film is pictured in another post above this.) Only one problem:
When I watch them on my flatscreen TV, the picture is distorted, as though it is stretched too far horizontally. But fortunately, on my old glass tube TV, the movies do not have this distortion.
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Post by mrmanowar on Dec 5, 2019 23:32:07 GMT -6
I own the original trilogy DVDs that have the original versions of the films on bonus disks. (The 1977 Star Wars film is pictured in another post above this.) Only one problem: When I watch them on my flatscreen TV, the picture is distorted, as though it is stretched too far horizontally. But fortunately, on my old glass tube TV, the movies do not have this distortion. I specifically did not buy any version of the Star Wars movies on VHS or DVD until they released this version that had the "original" versions also. I own the entire DVD set. However I did finally capitulate and buy a bigger grander screen TV for the first time in years (might be decade or more?) and I'm curious as to how these will hold up. My wee five year old self maybe six depending on the math saw Return of the Jedi in theatres, so I wanted this version. I've got these DVD's and bought them when they came out, but now will have to try them on a 4K or whatever the latest terminology is. To be honest, I bought the TV because of the 3 HDMI slots. One, to hold my DVD/Blu Ray player, two, to hold my Roku stick which peers of mine say is obsolete because the stick doesn't support 4K... maybe they're right? and three, to utilize the Nintendo retro system I bought for my kids (and me) last year for Christmas. On my old TV which only had 2 HDMI slots we were always switching... let alone dealing with the Nintendo Switch which I bought for them a year before... Gah, technology and its forced upgrades! I hate it, but have to go along with it to incorporate all the fun that goes with it. However since I'm a technologically incapable monkey I have to figure out how this all will work for me to get enjoyment as well as my kids who will still look at their phones, computer, etc.... Problem for another day. Back to thread, I liked the original Star Wars. I liked seeing the whole "who shot first" thing alongside the Stormtrooper hitting his/her head on the ceiling that was edited out of the later releases. |
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Post by asaki on Dec 6, 2019 6:44:05 GMT -6
Yes B) I wasn't sure if it was cool to name drop or not. Silver Screen Edition is nice too, but 4K77 has a bit of an edge, even though the deep blacks have a bit too much green at times. When I watch them on my flatscreen TV, the picture is distorted, as though it is stretched too far horizontally. It's because those discs are non-anamorphic. Most TVs and/or DVD players should have a "zoom" function somewhere in the aspect ratio settings that fixes this. |
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Post by hamurai on Dec 7, 2019 14:15:46 GMT -6
Funny, we just played a mini-campaign of FFG Star Wars some weeks back and everyone was talking about the new movies, about the Clone Wars series and so on. I couldn't follow most of it. They were amazed, almost shocked that I didn't care for the new stuff. "My" Star Wars are the original three films. I've watched Episode 2 in a cinema and fell asleep. I've watched Ep 1 and 3 at home and didn't care much. I did enjoy Solo somewhat (at least in the beginning), but that was maybe just because it was the first time I had been to a cinema since Episode 2  Maybe I enjoyed the cinema more than the film. That said, "my" Star Wars RPG is WEG's Star Wars and we played that a lot during my teen years, when there were just the original 3 films. They were such a great inspiration, our campaign ran for years without being boring. Our mini-campaign of FFG SW... 5 evenings and I wasn't invested much. The end was good, but all in between, meh. |
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Post by Piper on Dec 7, 2019 19:30:41 GMT -6
I thought "Clone Wars" was pretty entertaining after I overcame my aversion to cartoons. It shows Jedi just being Jedi and not out saving the entire galaxy (no matter how far, far away ...).
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Post by thomden on Dec 9, 2019 2:07:11 GMT -6
I thought "Clone Wars" was pretty entertaining after I overcame my aversion to cartoons. It shows Jedi just being Jedi and not out saving the entire galaxy (no matter how far, far away ...). Clone Wars has some really good stories and characters. I am most impressed by all the world building. Something that seems to have been thrown away in these new movies, sadly. |
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Post by asaki on Dec 13, 2019 7:33:37 GMT -6
That said, "my" Star Wars RPG is WEG's Star Wars and we played that a lot during my teen years, when there were just the original 3 films. That was my first ever P&P RPG (2nd edition). We played it a few times before I finally got to play AD&D 2E...and then everyone embraced 3E a year or so later. I wouldn't mind coming back to it at some point...I'm sure everyone would be cool with trying it out. I'd prefer to eBay the actual book first, though. |
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Post by asaki on Dec 30, 2019 7:21:51 GMT -6
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Post by countingwizard on Jan 23, 2020 11:36:57 GMT -6
Thank you both, I hadn't heard about that & it was fun to watch. But I wouldn't want it in the original movie any more than the other Special Edition stuff. |
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Post by countingwizard on Jan 23, 2020 11:42:17 GMT -6
I didn't just not like the new Star Wars movies, I hated them. I was pretty bitter that Disney bought them and immediately squatted all over the expanded universe...I mean, I get it, Disney makes a LOT more money when they don't have to pay some geeky old writer royalties for putting Mara Jade on a lunch box...but it's still pretty offensive. I was begrudgingly shown The Force Unleashed, and it was exactly what I was expecting: two hours of forgettable popcorn. I wouldn't say I hated it, but I couldn't tell you what the story was. Mark Hammill and the girl who plays Rey both publicly stated that they disliked the script for Episode 8, so that doesn't exactly sound encouraging to me. I'm halfway tempted to watch Solo, though, just because it was actually a George Lucas project before the sellout. Many people don't know you can find the original on DVD. It's on a special edition set from a while back that has it on a bonus disc. There are fan preservations of the actual 35mm film "out there". They did a pretty good job cleaning up ANH (including one Technicolor print), and they found a pristine copy of RotJ. ESB is a bit dirty, especially at the heads and tails, but I don't mind at all. They're working on a new scan of it as we speak. There are 16mm and 8mm preservations, too, if you really want to get oldschool. Solo is good because it very much feels like a Shadows of the Empire movie. Solo is bad because it's using Han Solo like the Star Trek reboots used the Enterprise Crew; it's just bad to rehash known characters for "character development". Are those fan preservations of the 35mm online? What would be some good search terms to use to find it? |
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Post by asaki on Mar 6, 2020 7:10:40 GMT -6
Are those fan preservations of the 35mm online? What would be some good search terms to use to find it? Ahhh...I think the most up-to-date versions are just called 4K77 and 4K83 (ESB is still in-the-works). There are also some older ones, like SW: Silver Screen Edition...I think ESB is called Renegade Grindhouse... I got them from a private torrent site, but I don't think they're accepting new members anymore. I'm sure they must be available elsewhere. I know they're always uploading things to Usenet, if you're into that kind of thing. Basically, almost any info you could need can be found somewhere at the Original Trilogy forums: originaltrilogy.com/discussion/Star-Wars-Preservation/id/17 |
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Post by asaki on Mar 14, 2020 23:18:52 GMT -6
Just watched Solo. Aside from some of the jokes that kind of fell flat (which was almost every single one), I thought it was pretty good. I suppose we should be glad the previous directors got replaced.
I don't quite know how the surprise cameo at the end is supposed to work, though...I assume it's either connected to one of the TV shows that I don't watch, or it's typical Disney setting us up for a sequel that will never happen. I might have to ask a guy at work.
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Post by Falconer on Mar 16, 2020 10:28:41 GMT -6
Yeah, I think it was just a “rule of cool” thing that doesn’t really work if you think about it too hard. (If there was ever an onscreen death that was meant to say, this guy is really, actually, positively dead, it’s his.)
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Post by asaki on Mar 18, 2020 2:42:40 GMT -6
Yeah, I asked at work, and it is connected to the cartoons. I knew the character was alive in certain canons, but I didn't know if it was in Disney's canon or not. I really don't know what they've kept, and I just always assume that if it didn't happen in Episodes IV, V, or VI, then it never happened. ...and, also, I'm sure it was supposed to be a setup for the sequel that we'll never see  Oh well. |
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Maybe I enjoyed the cinema more than the film.
Oh well.