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Post by machfront on Aug 19, 2019 0:35:02 GMT -6
I’m sure threads like this have existed...come and gone, But....were you master of the universe....your own perfect version, iteration, presentation of D&D would be....what? How?
Me? And by way of example.... The 3LBBs streamlined and simplified in a manner as White Box: Fantastic Medieval Adventure Game with some of the more hard core, deep interpretations from DD, and with a scrappy, tough and early on capable thief made 3LBB-appropriate.....with character backgrounds kinda hinted at as having simple game effects (the city-born fighter vs. the rural fighter, DM and player advice with regards to the highly intelligent thief vs the super strong thief, etc)....no hard mechanics....just a short word of two concerning thus. Single save with bonuses. Both ascending and descending AC. Simple, though widely spanning bestiary like Holmes. Perhaps a short, maybe two page, section showcasing the strength and ease of very different campaign worlds via excluding/adding/changing spells, classes or monsters, etc). 10 level soft ‘limit’ to help illustrate things such as ‘hero’ as being a thing that matters.
Printed and illustrated EXACTLY as Time-Life’s The Enchanted World books! 😀
Theme by Bo Hansson..... oh,,..I guess that’s a step too far and not doable....but whatever. Heheh
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Post by Deleted on Aug 19, 2019 7:34:08 GMT -6
What would be a great improvement in retro gaming would be some sort of webpage with a list of buttons and sliders to choose game options. Then, press a button and they generate a PDF of the OSR game featuring only the options selected. It's not that hard, technically, but would take a big investment of time to write all the possible sections.
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Post by scottenkainen on Aug 19, 2019 7:57:41 GMT -6
If I was in charge, I would print a "new" edition of D&D that would be just selected OD&D rules, with a few Petal Throne rules added in, edited and modified no more than 50%. Modifications would be to streamline the rules for elegance (6 ability scores, 6 classes, 6 races, 6 spell levels for each casting class, for example). This edition of D&D, the start-over edition, would come in two 8" x 10" hardcover books, one players book and one DM's book, each approximately 90 pages long. All the artwork would be black and white Dave Trampier art for a consistent look.
The Players Book would be 1/3 character creation rules (up to level 12), 1/3 spells, and 1/3 all the rules players need to know, like saving throws, how combat works, how exploration works. The Dungeon Master's Book would be 1/3 monsters, 1/3 treasures, and 1/3 campaign setting starter - a small town, an isolated wilderness area, and a 2-level dungeon hidden a few miles away from town (very Village of Hommlet-like, or even that same module, only expanded 50%) -- plus DMing advice on how to grow the campaign, keep track of it, etc. The advice would make it clear that it should take four years of weekly playing to reach level 12.
The books would be available for sale separately or in a boxed set with dice (rather than a flimsy cardboard box, I would go with a clear plastic box with a compartment on the side the dice would be clearly visible in).
That's the starter books. In Year 1, I would come out with a new Temple of Elemental Evil adventure module, 50% different from the original, with an expanded town of Nulb detailed, plus a 10-mile radius of wilderness detailed around them, and plenty of side quests. Every year we'd get another big dungeon like this.
I would also relaunch Dragon and Dungeon as quarterly print magazines. Dragon would cover all of the RPG industry, but with a focus on converting other material to the startover edition of D&D. Dungeon would be more like Paizo's adventure paths, with short adventures that can all fit together into one campaign.
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Post by Red Baron on Aug 19, 2019 8:38:25 GMT -6
I pretty much like things how they are.
I have always found the organization of the booklets very useable. If I were to change one thing, it would be to compile all the underworld exploration rules on one page, so that the DM had an easy reference for movement, light, doors, pits, surprise, and pursuit. I have done this for myself though, and it is a trivial task, so it isn't a major issue.
I of course have lots of little tweaks (swap out a few magic items, etc) but overall I love the theme/tone the books invoke, and think its a great system as is.
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Post by geoffrey on Aug 19, 2019 8:59:05 GMT -6
1. Rules: The 1st printing of the 1974 D&D rules and the 1st printing of Supplement I: GREYHAWK. 2. Organization: All of the above re-sifted into a single volume with an organization mirroring that of Moldvay/Cook's 1981 D&D rulebooks. 3. Illustration: Every single drawing done by Thom Wham. Black and white interior. Full-color, wrap-around cover. 4. Printing: 11-point Palatino font. 8.5" by 11" pages. Hardback. 5. Support: Gary and Rob's nearly 100 dungeon levels beneath the ruins of Greyhawk Castle. Anything not in the rulebook as described above (whether a new monster, or a new spell, or etc.) would be fully described in the modules. Also 100% illustrated by Thom Wham. What more do you need?
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Post by sixdemonbag on Aug 19, 2019 12:01:40 GMT -6
My pipe dream D&D:
1. 4 basic booklets (don't care about size or quality): I.) Character creation rules for players (and nothing else) II.) Rules for combat, exploration, and character advancement III.) Monster, Treasure, and Spell descriptions (all based on 1E, but simplified for OD&D) IV.) Sample adventure (dungeon, town, and encounter examples for noobs)
2. 4 base character classes: Fighter, Wizard, Cleric, & Thief
3. 4 base races: Human, Elf, Dwarf, & Halfling
4. Most rules would mimic OD&D, but with brief clarifications/improvements from future editions (I'd start with Holmes and B/X as a baseline)
5. Minimal illustrations and other space-eaters (only the iconic monsters, races, classes, etc.)
6. Add some humor and personality into the text. Nobody wants to read a textbook! That's what reference sheets are for.
7. d6 and d20 polyhedrals included (ideally a handful of each, this is a pipe dream after all...)
8. Ascending AC
9. Single saving throw
10. No ability scores
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AD&D would include:
1. More races and classes 2. High level spells and character levels 3. Domain Management 4. Detailed world-building advice with many random tables, etc. 5. More complex combat and exploration options 6. Extensive use of polyhedrals by default 7. Ability scores and corresponding skill systems 8. Hardcover with color illustrations 9. Pretty much all the other fiddly stuff that isn't really necessary to actually play the game, but many people would still clamor for...
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Post by Deleted on Aug 19, 2019 12:54:10 GMT -6
one book - Whitebox power level: - three classes (fighter, MU, thief), Human only. 10 levels - no prime requisites (I like CHA thieves, WIS fighters etc) , single save with bonuses, AC[AAC], one line backgrounds (rural, city-born, raised at court). - rules are character creation, combat, advancement. All the other stuff I happily handwave or use common sense - simple spell list, monsters, treasure.
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Post by tetramorph on Aug 19, 2019 13:22:37 GMT -6
One book with the following structure: 1. prepare characters 2. prepare a campaign 3. conduct wargame sessions 4. manage the campaign between sessions It would be written in short, clear sentences and use bullet points wherever possible. 8&1/2X11, double column, 9pt Palatino (good font choice, geoffrey), spiral bound so it can lay flat on the table. Someday I hope to do this. Maybe some of the text could contribute to @hedgehobbit’s text for his online modular idea!
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Post by peterlind on Aug 19, 2019 13:41:03 GMT -6
Ok my pipe-dream:
1. Corebook incorporates white box, Greyhawk (most), Holmes (selective), FAQ, Europa on setting up campaigns, DM/Player Advice - In Search of the Unknown. 2. Includes needed rules from Chainmail but uses Alternate Combat system. 3. Includes rules for neutral clerics (and/or druids). 4. Lays out basic skill system available to all classes if thieves are to be included. Thieves, if included, to have own saves. 5. If one saving throw, then allow optional rule to replicate OD&D saves. For example: Saves vs. Basilisk Gaze or Dragon's Breath are at -2; Saves vs. Death Ray/Poison or Wands are at +2. 6. Higher level spells (7+), items, monsters in Greyhawk moved to Eldritch Wizardry (higher level supplement). 7. In Core book or supplements, consider adding more basic, non-magic using Forester and Bard classes. 8. Brings back Tolkien/Burroughs elements if possible: Balrogs, Barsoomian-creatures.
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Post by talysman on Aug 19, 2019 18:05:00 GMT -6
Won't go too far into rules changes, because a lot of the stuff I want to see is stuff I work on for supplements, anyways. I'm not joining the thread to promote my blog.
But the player book would be very light on rules, more focused on character creation, classes and races, simple improvised background system, equipment list, advancement, and a sort of walk-through (no mechanics!) of different common situations to illustrate some of the basic things you can do in the broad areas of town encounters, wilderness travel, dungeon exploration, settlement building, and general downtime activities. Classes would be physical (non-magic,) semi-magical, and magical, with example variant classes made by changing one or two rules for each main class. Only common first level spells would be described, but a few higher-level spell names would be listed. Everything would be d6 based.
The GM book or books would have a fuller spell list, monster list, treasure list, and various mechanics explained in full, like reaction rolls and research rolls. All the walk-through examples from the player book would have two or three suggestions on procedures to use, but there would be a heavy emphasis on changing procedures to fit the needs of the moment (More Than One Way to Do It.)
The setting would be generic low-tech fantasy, but not much in the way of setting would be specified. Some example of setting up campaigns, dungeons, and traps would be in the GM book, but a lot of more detailed material would be in setting books.
Books would be digest-sized. Player book would be saddle stitch with a cardstock cover. GM book would probably be perfect bound and a lot thicker, possibly with a hard-bound option. Main font can be almost any ordinary serif font, but the title, captions, and headings would all be handlettered in a comic style. Illustrations would all be by Sergio Aragones. (Hey, it's a pipe dream, so why not?)
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Post by delta on Aug 19, 2019 18:41:25 GMT -6
Get into the Chainmail page where the man-to-man rules start and specify a reasonable time/space scale aligned to the miniatures in use. Everything else follows from that.
For example: Use the same 1 round = 10 seconds, 1" = 6 feet scale seen in both Gygax & Blume's 1974 Warriors of Mars and 1975's Boot Hill, or something close to it.
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Post by countingwizard on Aug 22, 2019 6:22:09 GMT -6
What would be a great improvement in retro gaming would be some sort of webpage with a list of buttons and sliders to choose game options. Then, press a button and they generate a PDF of the OSR game featuring only the options selected. It's not that hard, technically, but would take a big investment of time to write all the possible sections. This would be amazing. Would take some management to curate and consolidate rules to prevent duplication, and implement dependencies, but I believe this would be awesome.
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Post by Scott Anderson on Aug 27, 2019 1:18:12 GMT -6
Love the idea of DIY PDF generator. Considering the number of well-curated generator sites, this seems well within reach of some enterprising dice chucker.
I have lots of specific ideas for Platonic D&D. Don’t we all? House rules or fantasy heartbreakers, whatever you want to call them. We all have them.
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Post by Greyharp on Aug 27, 2019 6:04:39 GMT -6
My pipe dream would be single volume (Moldvay style), 12 level max, thief instead of cleric, option for magic-users to take a clerical or druidic path (rather than as separate classes), basic wargame/skirmishing rules included.
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Post by magremore on Aug 28, 2019 6:11:41 GMT -6
For sure I’ve sought that platonic rule set, never to be attained, hopelessly strived for . . . * * * Ever since seeing delta 's post some years ago, Target 20, or some variation on it/re-interpretation in light of it, has been used for combat. * * * The original art has its nostalgic charm, but certainly it could have been better. And there are those rules/guidelines that were overlooked and need clarification of one kind or another. _ _ _ _ _ _ _ _ _ _ _ _ _ _ _ _ _ _ _ _ _ _ _ _ _ _ _ _ _ _ _ _ _ _ _ _ _ _ _ _ _ _ _ _ _ _ _ _ * * * Because of when I came into the game (early/mid 80s), never going to give up on the thief. _ _ _ _ _ _ _ _ _ _ _ _ _ _ _ _ _ _ _ _ _ _ _ _ Moderator's Note: Multiple images were loading slowly, so I reduced their display size --- Zenopus
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Post by cadriel on Sept 3, 2019 13:41:42 GMT -6
This is a question that really stumped me for a bit, but I think I've found my way to it.
My pipe dream OD&D would be three books, but big ones.
Book I: The Compendium. This would combine OD&D with most of the choice bits from the first 3 supplements - all the new classes, spells, monsters and magic items, and the rules that don't suck. It would, however, be re-organized and updated with a good chunk of material (particularly combat rules) taken from Empire of the Petal Throne and Chainmail as necessary to flesh them out or clarify things, and maybe a touch of Holmes. All very orthodox TSR material.
Book II: The Grimoire. A compendium of variant material from back in the day. All the good material from the Strategic Review and The Dragon; variants on things like psionics and hit locations that weren't done well in the supplements; all kinds of lifepath tables and critical hit tables and variant races and classes and spells and magic items from the APAzine community and OD&D compatible works like EPT and the Arduin Grimoire. The "riotous diversity" of early OD&D condensed into a single usable volume.
Book III: The Bestiary. Oh, my. A simply gob-smacking listing of creatures. A compendium to put all three volumes of All the World's Monsters to shame. No nook or cranny left un-scoured. If a monster was done five times, then five variations might appear in this book. No restraint in borrowing and stealing.
In principle, you could run a thorough and complete OD&D game with just book I, or the most crazy-go-nuts gonzo variant ever with book II, and for anyone who loves monsters, book III would simply be a delight.
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