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Post by retrorob on Mar 31, 2019 13:55:51 GMT -6
Warriors of Mars has a truly amazing table for a chance of "mutual sighting" during encounter in the Wildernerss. It's quite simple, but very elegant. I adopted it in my OD&D campaign, as I grew tired of original rules for Evasion (that I find cumbersome). Now I just roll 1d6. If "Party is unseen" PC can avoid an encounter or gain a surprise. Thus I have surprise and evasion combined in a one roll.
I higly recommend to try it in your games!
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Post by Zenopus on Mar 31, 2019 16:45:57 GMT -6
Thanks for the pointer, I've never looked at that table before!
It's on page 20 of Warriors of Mars, top of the page. For those that don't have WoM:
For a typical party size (5-9), the rule is 1-2 = Party is unseen; 3-4 = Mutual sighting; 5-6 = Party is ambushed. I presume on 1-2, the party can ambush if they choose.
For larger parties (10+), the categories shift by 1 pip: 1, 2-3, 4-6
For smaller parties (2-4), the categories shift by 1 pip in the other direction: 1-3, 4-5, 6 For solo PCs, the categories shift further to: 1-4, 5, 6
* * * * *
I myself would probably roll surprise separately, so that the PCs are not surprised every time that they are ambushed; i.e. they can't avoid the encounter if ambushed, but are only surprised on a 1-2. For mutual sighting, either side may or may not be surprised (i.e., have the jump on the other group). If the party ambushes the encountered group, only their opponents roll for surprise.
WoM is pretty much presuming use of the this table for wilderness encounters, but one could try to apply it to dungeon encounters as well. If the party is unseen, it might mean the monsters are walking away from the party, or the party hears them coming from a distance; etc.
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Post by retrorob on Apr 1, 2019 5:17:37 GMT -6
I use it also in Dungeon encounters.
Thanks for your input, I will test a separate roll for surprise on the next session. The table doesn't take into account the number of creatures encountered or the terrain where the encounter takes place, what may be seen as a disadvantage. The array of the table is too small to tinker, for example +1 in the woods makes virtually impossible to ambush a solo PC. It's where your proposal comes in.
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Post by Red Baron on Apr 1, 2019 11:02:14 GMT -6
Thanks for the pointer, I've never looked at that table before! It's on page 20 of Warriors of Mars, top of the page. For those that don't have WoM: For a typical party size (5-9), the rule is 1-2 = Party is unseen; 3-4 = Mutual sighting; 5-6 = Party is ambushed. I presume on 1-2, the party can ambush if they choose. For larger parties (10+), the categories shift by 1 pip: 1, 2-3, 4-6 For smaller parties (2-4), the categories shift by 1 pip in the other direction: 1-3, 4-5, 6 For solo PCs, the categories shift further to: 1-4, 5, 6 So the size of the second party (monsters) is not taken into consideration? I would get rid of the mutual sighting category, and simply have each party roll to spot the other party. The chance of spotting a party is based on the size of the party you are attempting to spot. Size of Party | Roll to spot | 1 | 1 | 2-4 | 1-2 | 5-9 | 1-3 | 10+ | 1-4 |
Better size classes IMO would be changing the orders of magnitude to roughly 10^0, 10^0-10^1, 10^1-10^2, and 10^2-10^3. Since wandering monsters cap out at 300 or so, there isn't much need for any larger class, but you can extrapolate up, so >1 000 would add a pip to the range, and >10 000 (eg. 2+ roman legions) would always be spotted. Size of Party | Class | Roll to Spot | 1 | Man | 1 | 2-10 | Small Party | 1-2 | 11-100 | Small Force | 1-3 | 101+ | Army | 1-4 |
I myself would probably roll surprise separately, so that the PCs are not surprised every time that they are ambushed; i.e. they can't avoid the encounter if ambushed, but are only surprised on a 1-2. For mutual sighting, either side may or may not be surprised (i.e., have the jump on the other group). If the party ambushes the encountered group, only their opponents roll for surprise. WoM is pretty much presuming use of the this table for wilderness encounters, but one could try to apply it to dungeon encounters as well. If the party is unseen, it might mean the monsters are walking away from the party, or the party hears them coming from a distance; etc. In event of an ambush situation I would give double normal surprise chance (surprised on 1-4). Of course, if spotted beforehand there is no chance of surprise.
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Post by Malchor on Mar 19, 2023 20:47:29 GMT -6
Thanks for the pointer, I've never looked at that table before! It's on page 20 of Warriors of Mars, top of the page. For those that don't have WoM: For a typical party size (5-9), the rule is 1-2 = Party is unseen; 3-4 = Mutual sighting; 5-6 = Party is ambushed. I presume on 1-2, the party can ambush if they choose. For larger parties (10+), the categories shift by 1 pip: 1, 2-3, 4-6 For smaller parties (2-4), the categories shift by 1 pip in the other direction: 1-3, 4-5, 6 For solo PCs, the categories shift further to: 1-4, 5, 6 * * * * * I myself would probably roll surprise separately, so that the PCs are not surprised every time that they are ambushed; i.e. they can't avoid the encounter if ambushed, but are only surprised on a 1-2. For mutual sighting, either side may or may not be surprised (i.e., have the jump on the other group). If the party ambushes the encountered group, only their opponents roll for surprise. WoM is pretty much presuming use of the this table for wilderness encounters, but one could try to apply it to dungeon encounters as well. If the party is unseen, it might mean the monsters are walking away from the party, or the party hears them coming from a distance; etc. That sounds reminiscent of the night battle sighing rules in DGUTS: On moonlit nights with good visibility (you should roll for this on one die, with a 1 or 2 meaning that visibility is good) maximum sighting and firing range is 10". On nights with fair visibility (a roll of 3 or 4), maximum fir'ing and sighting range is reduced to 8". And on nights with poor visibility (a roll of 5 or 6), maximum sighting and firing range is reduced to only 6" It always seemed odd to me that in OD&D all of the d6 odds rolls are a 1 on a 6-side or 1 or 2 on a 6-sider to 1 to 5 on a 6-sider, yet for wondering monsters the roll is a 6.
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