sieg
Level 5 Thaumaturgist
Posts: 317
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Post by sieg on Mar 26, 2018 7:34:28 GMT -6
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Post by cadriel on Mar 26, 2018 9:25:41 GMT -6
It was a solid episode and I was happy to spend a morning listening to you guys.
That said - I did have two notes about it.
First, DM Corbett miscalculated when describing the coins. They aren't like dimes (2.2 grams) but are all of 45.4 grams, which should be on the scale of half-dollar coins, but thicker. So those ogres are definitely good for using their coin bags as weapons.
Second, I was a bit surprised there wasn't any discussion of the Sample Dungeon or Skull Mountain. It'd be fun to have a follow-up half episode focusing on that, maybe in the context of an interview with @zenopus ?
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Post by oakesspalding on Mar 26, 2018 10:11:33 GMT -6
That's funny. I just got through listening to the first 60%, five minutes ago.
I have to say, while it was an useful and very FUNNY show, you guys were more critical than I expected, occasionally in ways that (don't kill me) I thought were a bit unfair. Or to put it another way, some of the criticisms could have been applied to ALL old-school versions of D&D, including AD&D. I would put Corbett's snarks about Magic-User experience and missile weapon ranges in that category. I'm not trying to rag on Corbett, here. It's just that those were the ones that stood out. You (Mike) tried to put many of the criticisms in context, but overall I thought they left a somewhat confusing impression.
I did find some of the observations about Holmes itself to be very interesting- for example all of that inconsistency/ambiguity about rules involving both AD&D and the B1/B2 modules offered with the set. The discussion of scrolls as well as the observation about the lack of pictures was also interesting. I had never noticed that about the pictures but now it seems obvious.
All in all, another great show.
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Post by oakesspalding on Mar 26, 2018 10:28:24 GMT -6
...DM Corbett miscalculated when describing the coins. They aren't like dimes (2.2 grams) but are all of 45.4 grams, which should be on the scale of half-dollar coins, but thicker. So those ogres are definitely good for using their coin bags as weapons. Yeah, I noticed that as well. I believe gold is about three times heavier than the stuff they make dimes out of, but that would still only make it 6.6 grams. On the other hand, a coin the size of a Kennedy half-dollar (made out of gold) would get it exactly right. But, of course, the correction only makes the problem with the value of gold even worse. One 45.4 gram gold coin would now be worth almost $2000 in today's exchange rates. Thus, Ogres would be carrying around $200,000 to $1.2 million on their Ogrish persons.
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Post by cadriel on Mar 26, 2018 10:48:06 GMT -6
One note about clarity in historical retrospective. We know how attacks per round were supposed to work in Holmes, and that it was actually some rather unfortunate editing that gives daggers the ability to strike more often. Once you see what Zach shared from the original manuscript it becomes obvious that dagger supremacy was not intentional, and the musings about it are kind of moot.
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sieg
Level 5 Thaumaturgist
Posts: 317
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Post by sieg on Mar 26, 2018 11:12:36 GMT -6
Thanks for the feedback, and IMO I suspect DM Corbett was playing devil's advocate to a degree. I'd never thought the dagger thing was intentionally made to create dagger dominance; just a rule to try to help those with daggers (Thieves/MU's) that didn't work in practice. Thanks for that link though, I'll give it a look! Coins...ah, I just use common sense. In a D&D world, gold seems rather more common than our Earth, so I tend to consider gp to equate to silver on our world. D&D platinum (if you use it) is more like our gold, but I suppose when you get down to it even this isn't really accurate. As for the Sample Dungeon, we frankly ran out of time! I'll see if we can chat a bit about it in ep 10 1/2 if time allows. DM Mike
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Post by Zenopus on Mar 27, 2018 21:00:47 GMT -6
It was a solid episode and I was happy to spend a morning listening to you guys. That said - I did have two notes about it. First, DM Corbett miscalculated when describing the coins. They aren't like dimes (2.2 grams) but are all of 45.4 grams, which should be on the scale of half-dollar coins, but thicker. So those ogres are definitely good for using their coin bags as weapons. The 2nd edition of the Holmes rulebook adds a sentence that "All coins are roughly equal in size and weight, being approximately the circumference and thickness of a quarter and weighing about twice as much as a quarter" (pg 34, section on Treasure). There are 80 quarters to a pound, so twice this weight coins would give 40 coins per pound. This is 1/4 of the standard weight given in the Encumbrance section: "300 gold pieces are assumed to weight about 30 pounds" (pg 9), or 10 coins per pound, which is the 45.4 gms you mentioned. The difference could be hand-waved as Encumbrance including bulkiness as well as actual weight. Thanks for the vote of confidence. I was on with them in the summer of 2016 when they were with Save or Die. It was fun and I would do it again.
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sieg
Level 5 Thaumaturgist
Posts: 317
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Post by sieg on Mar 28, 2018 13:41:31 GMT -6
Hey Z, I did PM you over at dragonsfoot asking if you wanted to come onto the show but you never replied?
Mike
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Post by Zenopus on Mar 28, 2018 22:33:21 GMT -6
sieg I just checked my DF messages and the last message I received from you was from 2016, when you asked about the Save or Die show. I'm actually "zenopus77" over there because there was a previously registered "zenopus" (with 0 posts). Perhaps you messaged the wrong account?
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sieg
Level 5 Thaumaturgist
Posts: 317
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Post by sieg on Mar 29, 2018 12:08:13 GMT -6
Crap! I probably sent to the direct name... I'd wondered why you didn't reply; I guess I know now. Oh well, maybe next time. I'm sure we'll cover somebody's Holmes Basic product and we can shoehorn in Sample Dungeon then? Mike, he who doesn't recheck PM names enough...
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