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Post by tetramorph on Jun 14, 2019 10:14:33 GMT -6
scrape, welcome. I strongly proselytize for the purity of the three classes. But at the table I allow the occasional thief for those who really want it. Problem with the thief from a war-game POV -- they have no roll in combat if the group understands itself to be a tactical whole. Still, they are good for increasing the exploration game in a creative direction -- as long as it doesn't split the party. So far that is as "crazy" as I go!
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scrape
Level 1 Medium
OD&D referee and player in Norman, OK
Posts: 12
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Post by scrape on Jun 14, 2019 12:26:38 GMT -6
Thanks, tetramorph. I'm digging the board for loving OD&D.
I like thinking about allowing a "thief" as craziness. Oddly, I haven't had a thief in my game. I admire your ability to keep the campaign pure.
I've had a "Blackmoor" monk. That was not successful. I had to give NPCs more magical defenses to keep them from getting stunned or killed on one roll. This meant that those defenses often found their way into the PCs' hands. I would strongly discourage monks in the future. The bard died too quickly to reveal himself as crazy or not. The current paladin and druid aren't causing any problems from a balance standpoint. The magic user causes more balance trouble.
Just learning as I go.
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Post by Punkrabbitt on Jun 16, 2019 21:52:10 GMT -6
scrape, the best thief I ever ran was an elf fighter-magic user... "thief" is a profession, not a class. Conan was a thief!
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scrape
Level 1 Medium
OD&D referee and player in Norman, OK
Posts: 12
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Post by scrape on Jun 20, 2019 8:43:40 GMT -6
Yes, I understand your objection, punkrabbitt. I like the purity you and tetramorph hold on the thief class and the LBBs and agree that the class' name is a profession rendering the whole business confusing. A thief might also be a temporary state resulting from an isolated action, in addition to a profession. In which case, all characters usually wind up doing some thieving. My best was a cleric.
Yet, the first sentence of Greyhawk reads: "There are now four main classes of characters..." My impure approach allows the thief class.
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Post by gemini476 on Jun 20, 2019 12:01:09 GMT -6
I can't help but wonder if that's inspired by how the Greyhawk Thief is a universal multiclass option.
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Post by talysman on Jun 21, 2019 13:36:51 GMT -6
A thief might also be a temporary state resulting from an isolated action, in addition to a profession. In which case, all characters usually wind up doing some thieving. On a semi-related note? Mentzer has released a thief para-class intended for BECMI style D&D. It basically follows your line of reasoning with regard to thief (or thieving) being something you do rather than what you are. So your player-character can "add-on" the Thief para-class (my word, not Mentzer's) and be a FM (or MU, CL) who is also a thief. Just an idea! Have a great day fellow gamer. I can't help but wonder if that's inspired by how the Greyhawk Thief is a universal multiclass option. Possibly. IIRC Mentzer stated it was an idea he had while writing BECMI but never approached EGG about. Something similar certainly existed back in the day. When I first started playing, I only had access to some mimeographed material that was mostly from the 3LBBs, but there were a couple things that seemed to be house rules. I don't remember seeing the thief class, but there was a leech para-class, as you describe it. You took it as an add-on to fighter, m-u, or cleric, and it gave you healing ability. We didn't use it, and I didn't copy the rules for it when I hand-typed my own copies of my friend's mimeographed tables. I frequently regret that decision, because I've never seen another copy of those rules since. It's colored my thinking on classes like the thief class. Although I've used it as-is and am OK with players taking it as a stand-alone class, I've been tweaking it repeatedly and trying to figure out a good way to allow a para-class option for it. I've also been generalizing the concept into a "talent" class, so that players can swap out thief abilities for healing abilities, as in my own version of the leech class, or for chemistry abilities in an apothecary class, or mechanical abilities in a tinkerer class. Haven't fully committed to any one solution yet, though. |
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scrape
Level 1 Medium
OD&D referee and player in Norman, OK
Posts: 12
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Post by scrape on Jun 23, 2019 10:04:48 GMT -6
What a shame, Talysman! If only we had all been enthusiastic archivists in our early days.
Offering knowledge of leech lore, tinkering, and sneaking/stealing to the three core classes sounds like a promising approach. The idea that thief is a ubiquitous multi-class option with no level limits also suggests that the early game saw thieving in complicated ways. Nice point Gemini476. I have no objection to anybody choosing to be a thief class character IMC. That d4 hit points and low success rate with their skills at first level leaves the class to those who really, really want it.
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Post by Punkrabbitt on Jun 23, 2019 17:58:29 GMT -6
scrape, I have no objection to the thief class, but I think that thieving as a profession can be accomplished by clever use of the abilities in any class. My example of the elf fighter/magic-user was a AD&D2E character, the party didn't realize I wasn't an actual thief class until about 5th or 6th level if I recall correctly. I just posited it as an example that thieving can be what one does instead of who one is 
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