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Post by Falconer on Jan 11, 2017 15:43:00 GMT -6
As discussed in another thread, let’s rewatch Star Trek! Proposed timetable: Jan. 22 - Forbidden Planet Jan. 29 - The Cage Feb. 12 - Where No Man Has Gone Before Feb. 19 - The Corbomite Maneuver Feb. 26 - Mudd’s Women Mar. 5 - The Enemy Within Mar. 12 - The Man Trap May - The Conscience of the King June - Return of the Archons July - Errand of Mercy August - The Apple September - Requiem for Methuselah
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Post by Falconer on Jan 20, 2017 10:09:03 GMT -6
Who’s in? Sound off!
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Post by geoffrey on Jan 20, 2017 23:25:15 GMT -6
I'm in.
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Post by geoffrey on Jan 22, 2017 17:38:15 GMT -6
Falconer, is it thus far but thou and I?
Re-watching Forbidden Planet has reminded me why it is one of my favorite sci-fi movies.
The attack of the id monster, with it roaring and being revealed by the energy field, is a frightening scene. If I had seen that as a child, I would have had nightmares.
The Krell's city was on the same scope as the Death Star--and more than 20 years earlier.
I like the ending line: "We are, after all, not God."
It's neat that the doctor later played that invader from Andromeda in the Star Trek episode, "By Any Other Name".
The weird, mysterious music fits the movie well.
Commander Adams, like the later Captain Kirk, rolls in, disrupts an existing society, takes one look at a computer and blows it up, and kisses the pretty girl.
The doctor's line about Robby driving like a madman always gets a chuckle out of me. His final line about "monsters from the id" always moves me.
Great, great movie. I'm trying to think of something I didn't like about it.
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Post by coffee on Jan 23, 2017 8:03:08 GMT -6
I'd like to be in, but I have to see if I actually have a copy of Forbidden Planet. If I do, it's on VHS, and I'll have to set up my old VCR for that.
But it'll be worth it...
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Post by Deleted on Jan 23, 2017 10:04:45 GMT -6
I also don't have access to Forbidden Planet. Although I have lately been watching all sorts of late 50s, early 60s science fiction shows just to try to understand the culture from which Star Trek emerged. Of special note is an old British show called Space Patrol. It was a puppet show ala Thunderbirds but it seems to be a bridge between the older rocketship shows like Tom Corbett Space Cadet and Trek. The early shows from the 50s focused mainly on space rescues and other disasters as well as stopping the bad guy from sabotage. Space Patrol does a few of these episodes but also has episodes about more esoteric things like space diplomacy and robot uprisings. It's three main heroes are the dashing Captain Dart, the elf-like & logical Venusian, and the gruff, constantly complaining Martian. The space ship was a strange looking, rotating, tubular flying saucer thingy. You can watch them on YouTube. www.youtube.com/watch?v=Wh0kVEYzQAI
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Post by Falconer on Jan 23, 2017 10:43:43 GMT -6
I’ll not get a chance to comment till tonight. Anyway, the really interesting thing IMO will be to see it back to back with The Cage, so, folks, you have time to watch Forbidden Planet AND The Cage by next Sunday/Monday, we’ll have plenty to discuss.
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Post by owlorbs on Jan 23, 2017 17:26:17 GMT -6
I want to be in, but I'm in the middle of a move - so I'll need to play catch up in two weeks. I'm looking forward to the continuing discussion. Awesome fact: I have never seen Forbidden Planet.
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Post by Falconer on Jan 23, 2017 19:36:23 GMT -6
You’re in for a treat!
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Post by geoffrey on Jan 23, 2017 20:16:18 GMT -6
Yep. It's the best Star Trek episode ever.
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Post by Falconer on Jan 25, 2017 13:49:03 GMT -6
It has so much in common with Star Trek in general and with The Cage in particular. I think I’ll make some Cage-specific comments after we watch that one. Otherwise I’m just going to spew things as they come to me—no time for one great big post.
Robby the Robot ‘short-circuiting’ from being presented with a paradox. How many computers did Kirk deliberately destroy by this method? (‘I, Mudd’, Nomad, Landru…?)
Lack of a viewscreen in the ship — appropriate for the generation of the Romulan War (“Nor was there even ship-to-ship, visual communication; therefore, no Human, Romulan, or ally has ever seen the other”).
United Planets Cruiser C-57D being a saucer — since Enterprise has a saucer section, this can be rationalized as an evolution.
The decelerator platforms — clear inspiration for Trek’s Transporters.
Robby’s replicator — this tech was available on the Enterprise.
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Post by coffee on Jan 26, 2017 8:18:04 GMT -6
The doctor is the wise one, and the captain's confidant.
The captain gets the girl.
Here's one that Star Trek strove for, if didn't always succeed: The 'villain' isn't truly villainous; he's not trying to cause harm but instead is acting to protect his own.
Just a few thoughts.
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Post by Falconer on Jan 29, 2017 14:12:25 GMT -6
Don’t forget to watch ‘The Cage’ tonight!
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Post by owlorbs on Jan 31, 2017 13:15:49 GMT -6
I watched Forbidden Planet last night for the first time (rented via Amazon). Wow! It looks great after all these years. Great music and cool effects. I was particularly struck when they walked across the plank in the ventilator shaft. Perhaps because I'd heard it was influential to Star Trek and I wasn't expecting to see the inspiration for all those Star Wars "heights" scenes. Of course, unlike Star Trek, the "blue shirts" bite the dust!
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Post by geoffrey on Feb 1, 2017 17:21:20 GMT -6
I must admit to not being a fan of "The Cage". While it is OK, something seems off to me. Perhaps it is the pervading illusionism of much of its "reality". This is moderated for me in the two-part episode of "The Menagerie", since I find the Kirk and Spock stuff interesting in that.
Oh, I should mention that I always find it funny when Spock yells in "The Cage" and in the early episodes.
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Post by Deleted on Feb 10, 2017 8:47:12 GMT -6
I've been sick so apologies for the lateness of my reply on The Cage. As I mentioned before, I've been watching as much 50s & 60s sci-fi TV as possible. After doing so, my main take-away from The Cage is that Star Trek is more of an evolution than a revolution.
The props and costumes wouldn't look out of place in any of the Space Patrol type series that preceded it. My favorite was the ill-fitting glittery jackets (what I'd call the "Future Fabric Aesthetic".) The cockpit was pretty standard although round denoting the flying saucer design, however, it was still primarily forward facing (unlike the cockpit from Forbidden Planet IIRC). The prominent captain's chair makes it's iconic introduction as I'm pretty sure that's solely a sci-fi thing and generally absent in the old sci-fi programs (where the captain sat in the "driver's" seat normally).
The crew is also fairly standard, even including the young "space cadet" character (though he isn't really used in that role in this episode). The doctor, OTOH, seems straight off the set of Gunsmoke. I'd say his western pedigree is confirmed by the renaming as "Bones". The female #1 seems more of a result of this episode's particular plot than serving any other purpose. That she was dropped and merged with Spock supports this IMO.
The plot was a fairly standard alien abduction story mixed in with a cautionary tale about the dangers of VR. Overall, this one particular episode felt more like something from the Twilight Zone or Outer Limits than what we'd later associate with Star Trek.
One other thing, it seemed that the costume department was trying to show the injuries from the fight in Rigel 7 with the young kid's right hand being bandaged as well as a bandage on another's neck. Even Spock walked with a limp when first landing on the planet. This never amounted to anything.
Overall, I like Captain Pike and would like to look into an alternate history where he stuck around.
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Post by coffee on Feb 11, 2017 13:08:40 GMT -6
The female #1 seems more of a result of this episode's particular plot than serving any other purpose. That she was dropped and merged with Spock supports this IMO. According to Gene Roddenberry, the network gave him a choice: Keep the woman or the alien. He kept the alien (but he later married the woman, so it still worked out for him personally...)
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Post by Falconer on Feb 12, 2017 15:34:14 GMT -6
Great comments, hedgehobbit!
I adjusted the timetable so that “Where No Man Has Gone Before” is scheduled for today.
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Post by geoffrey on Feb 12, 2017 23:31:51 GMT -6
With "Where No Man Has Gone Before" we are pretty close to classic Trek, but not all the way there. We still have different uniforms, no Dr. McCoy, and Spock hasn't stopped yelling. I enjoy watching the episode, though it is not one of my favorites. I like seeing Spock carrying around that rifle and looking serious.
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Post by aldarron on Feb 13, 2017 6:49:20 GMT -6
Forbidden Planet is definitely one of my favorite movies. Honestly though I wish I'd never started reading the Star Trek threads here because it never occurred to me to think of anything Trekish related to Forbidden Planet. You guys kinda ruined it for me. The Forbidden Planet universe is sooo much better than Star Trek, I prefer not to think of those two anywhere near the same vain. Oh well....
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Post by Deleted on Feb 17, 2017 9:20:14 GMT -6
Where No Man Has Gone Before First off, I liked how efficiently they introduced the new Spock in the opening scenes. Talking about his opinion on emotion and his human mother. This scene also established a longstanding Trek tradition of not understanding how Chess is played. Overall, though I'd consider this episode a failure. Not for the obvious reasons: the cheesy effects, the silly ESP premise, or Kirk's oblivious decision to fly into the pink cloud, but because the two main characters, Mitchell and Dr. Dehnim, were both completely unlikable from the very beginning. You never felt Kirk's hesitation to not transport both of them out into space. The only likable character gets strangled. The doctor character was completely devoid of the character of either Bones or the guy from The Cage. According to Gene Roddenberry, the network gave him a choice: Keep the woman or the alien. He kept the alien (but he later married the woman, so it still worked out for him personally...) I'll file that under "Awfully Convenient"
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Post by geoffrey on Feb 21, 2017 9:57:49 GMT -6
With "The Corbomite Maneuver" we are into what I regard as full Star Trek. The first thing I notice when re-watching the episode is that I really regret the loss of Yeoman Rand early in the first season. You can tell from the end credits that she was originally intended to be as important as Dr. McCoy, in the second tier below Kirk and Spock. Something like this:
Tier 1: Kirk and Spock Tier 2: McCoy and Rand Tier 3: Scotty, Sulu, and Uhura Tier 4: the red-shirts who don't survive the episode
While Kirk as womanizer is kind of funny, a big part of me regrets that Rand did not gradually develop into his steady girlfriend, with her showing up as his wife in Star Trek: The Motion Picture. Tarzan, John Carter, Flash Gordon, Conan, Elric, Fafhrd and the Gray Mouser, Han Solo, etc. all got married. So why not Kirk?
Anyway, I overall like the episode, though I would not rank it amongst my favorites. I am always bothered a bit by Balok's abrupt laugh. I like Kirk coming out of the gate swinging with his brazen lie about corbomite. Kirk was Kirk right up front.
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Post by Deleted on Feb 21, 2017 10:20:56 GMT -6
Overall, I found the tension and pacing of this episode to be very effective. It gives off a feel of the Enterprise being a military vessel, almost like a Hornblower novel.
Aaaaaaannnnnd then they ruin it all with their "lol jk" ending featuring the ugliest kid ever on broadcast TV.
Still, "We are very much alike, Captain Kirk, You and I" is one of my most often quoted lines from Star Trek.
Bones didn't get much of an intro, he seems to be just a continuation, personality wise, of the two previous Doctors. Same with Yeoman Rand replacing a similar character from the Cage. Both are better written than the characters they replaced.
BTW-Was this "First Federation" ever mentioned again?
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Post by Falconer on Feb 21, 2017 13:27:00 GMT -6
No, it was never mentioned again. Very few things are mentioned again, in this series, which is part of the charm—it doesn’t rely on the accumulation of ‘canon’. Major exceptions that I can think are “Balance of Terror” and “Errand of Mercy,” upon which several plots are built in later seasons. Any others I’m missing?
That said, the corbomite maneuver itself is reused in “The Deadly Years,” and Kirk’s physical exam as shown in this episode (shirtless Kirk doing the leg exercises with McCoy looking on) is done again in the last episode of Star Trek (“Turnabout Intruder”)—a nice bookend.
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Post by geoffrey on Feb 21, 2017 20:00:13 GMT -6
No, it was never mentioned again. Very few things are mentioned again, in this series, which is part of the charm—it doesn’t rely on the accumulation of ‘canon’. Major exceptions that I can think are “Balance of Terror” and “Errand of Mercy,” upon which several plots are built in later seasons. Any others I’m missing? Harry Mudd. That said, the corbomite maneuver itself is reused in “The Deadly Years,” and Kirk’s physical exam as shown in this episode (shirtless Kirk doing the leg exercises with McCoy looking on) is done again in the last episode of Star Trek (“Turnabout Intruder”)—a nice bookend. I never noticed that about the leg exercises being in the first and last McCoy Treks. That's pretty cool.
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Post by geoffrey on Mar 2, 2017 10:17:40 GMT -6
I don't care for "Mudd's Women". I would give it a grade of "D"--below average. I find it goofy but not amusing. I prefer the second Mudd episode: "I, Mudd".
Also, was this Star Trek's first use of the show-close-up-of-woman's-face-with-slightly-blurred-filter-while-playing-corny-music technique? Not a fan.
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Post by Falconer on Mar 3, 2017 9:07:53 GMT -6
I’m pretty sure all TV used that technique.
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Post by geoffrey on Mar 5, 2017 21:10:29 GMT -6
Falconer, how about updating the opening post for the next episodes in line?
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Post by Falconer on Mar 5, 2017 21:25:07 GMT -6
Done! Time to explore the character of our intrepid lead—and the nature of good and evil!
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Post by geoffrey on Mar 11, 2017 20:02:45 GMT -6
"The Enemy Within" is one of the better Trek episodes. It has Yeoman Rand, which is always a plus. I like the examination of the human soul contained in the movie, similar to Plato's chariot allegory of the human soul. I think watching "evil" Kirk is always a hoot. The crazy make-up, the leering, the hysterics, the obsession with Rand, etc. is all hilarious. I also kind of like Spock's little dig at Rand at the end. In light of later episodes, this one has the bonus of including the biggest oversight on the part of the entire crew in the history of Starfleet: Get a shuttlecraft and go pick-up Sulu! What a fun episode.
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