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Post by crimhthanthegreat on Sept 5, 2007 20:07:51 GMT -6
How about a "do over"? Just wondering who each of you consider the biggest influences on you and the way that you play OD&D. I started to compile a list of the top books and realized that some posters listed just a couple while others listed a huge list. It became difficult to determine how to classify things like "ancient history" or the like; is there a specific book that influenced you a lot? As the thread was originally supposed to be about the bigest influences how about if we limit the list to 5-6 of the most influencial rather than a laundry list of every book you ever liked? That way we can really compose a nice list of the top books! So ... you can re-post a "top" list or go back to edit your earlier post. I think that might be more useful in the long run. Here's my new and revised list of five top authors: * Tolkien * Howard * Moorcock * Burroughs * Zelazny Fin, that is more what I had in mind. I could have listed dozens of authors but I was mainly focusing on the ones that influenced each of us the most.
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Post by Lord Gwydion on Sept 5, 2007 22:40:08 GMT -6
Okay, trimming my list (and putting them in relative order of importance to the effect on my game they had):
1. Lloyd Alexander's Prydain Chronicles
2. Choose Your Own Adventure, Endless Quest and Wizards, Warriors and You game books (learned a lot about adventure structure/possibilities beyond the dungeon map reading these).
3. mythology, legends, fairy tales [particularly Beowulf and D'Aulaire's Greek Mythology]
4. Thomas Malory's L'Morte d'Arthur
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Post by crimhthanthegreat on Sept 6, 2007 17:55:21 GMT -6
Lloyd Alexander's Prydain Chronicles are one of the few things mentioned in these books threads (here and elsewhere) that I have never read, I am going to have to get a set, everyone seems to love them.
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Post by Lord Gwydion on Sept 6, 2007 18:51:12 GMT -6
They're written as young adult fiction, but tell a good tale based heavily on Welsh mythology. I definitely recommend them.
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Post by rogatny on Sept 14, 2007 14:39:29 GMT -6
What influences me now is definitely different than what influenced me as a kid.
The things that influenced me as a kid concurrent to when I first started playing D&D:
The Hobbit Alexander's Prydain C.S. Lewis' Narnia Rats of NIMH Biographies of great explorers, particular Columbus, Magellan, and Drake U.S. Civil War fiction, Rifles for Watie, Across Five Aprils, Red Badge of Courage, etc. Marvel comics The Dungeon! boardgame
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Post by stonetoflesh on Oct 29, 2007 15:54:17 GMT -6
Growing up, I was heavily influenced by Tolkien, Lloyd Alexander, the original Star Wars trilogy, various history and mythology books, and a slew of solo gamebooks (CYOA, Endless Quest, Fighting Fantasy, Lone Wolf, etc.).
In college I really started delving into the Sword & Sorcery tradition-- Howard, Leiber, Vance, Moorcock, C.A. Smith, Poul Anderson, et al.-- which continues to have a tremendous impact on my adult gaming life.
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ant
Level 5 Thaumaturgist
Posts: 243
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Post by ant on Oct 30, 2007 5:41:16 GMT -6
When I was a kid:
The Hobbit The Sword of Shannara Conan comics The Fighting Fantasy gamebook series (specifically Deathtrap Dungeon, Forest of Doom, Citadel of Chaos and Island of the Lizard King) The Grailquest gamebook series The Sorcery! gamebook series
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Post by dwayanu on Nov 3, 2007 14:59:44 GMT -6
I think the challenge is to pare down to a short list. Here goes:
Leiber's Fafhrd & Grey Mouser Vance Moorcock, Farmer and Zelazny "multiverses" Merritt C.A. Smith DeCamp
recently: Michael Shea (especially his tales of Nifft the Lean)
Howard figures less in practice because D&D puts so much more emphasis on magic. Still, his Conan stories in particular seem a "must read" for any D&Der.
E.R. Burroughs might deserve a (or even top) place on my short list. I couldn't get enough of his books as a lad, but can't remember now where I got what notions. There's certainly a Burroughs influence on many later writers!
Dunsany and Lovecraft also come in perhaps more for their broad influence on the "sword and sorcery" genre than for their own works (which I love, but seem less directly relevant to my D&D).
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Post by Rhuvein on Nov 3, 2007 19:46:33 GMT -6
Hmm, very interesting to think of my earliest books and whether they had some influence on either later reading choices or gaming. One that comes to mind was the Dr. Doolittle books. I hadn't thought about them until these last few posts. I'm sure they got me interested in adventure, fantasy and sci-fi. I'll have to try and think if I can remember more. Actually, I did read grammar school version of Greek Mythology and of course watch all those movies from way back when.
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Post by makofan on Nov 20, 2007 10:15:50 GMT -6
Howard and Tolkien were seminal, any others just added depth
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Post by jdrakeh on Nov 20, 2007 22:45:40 GMT -6
Ambrose Bierce (just his philosophy in general) Fritz Leiber (The Fafhrd and Mouser stuff, naturally) Manly Wade Wellman (the Silver John stories) Jack Vance (Blue World, the Alastor novels, etc) Vernor Vinge (Grimm's World)
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Post by doc on Nov 28, 2007 16:26:03 GMT -6
This is a great topic!
I was influenced mostly by the REH stuff. Not so much Conan as Solomon Kane, Bran Mak Morn, Kull, and Steve Costigan. Also by the Lankhmar books that gave me my love of urban based campaigns. I never got into JRR the way that most gamers have, though I certainly loved the films. The Elric series was good, though not one of my favorites. I DID have at least one character based on Elric and one on Moonglum as a neophyte gamer, though. Karl Edward Wagner's Kane stories (no relation to the dour Puritan) were also a great read for me at the time.
The Barsoom books were a huge influence, particularly the way they blended swords and princesses with high technology. Really great stuff! I'm suprised that nobody has tried to get the rights to do a Barsoom game with (cover your ears) D20.
The Larry Niven Magic Trilogy (The Magic Goes Away, The Magic May Return, and More Magic). These books made me look at fantasy in a whole new way, grasping the Big Picture beyond just storming the castle and winning the princess.
One big influence on my early gaming style was an old Marvel Comics setting called Weird World. It came out in a sporadic series of specials and one-shots just at the time that I first got into gaming. My elves, dwarves, and goblins were based a lot more on Weird World versions than traditional D&D stereotypes, which made for some very confused players Back in the Day. I loved the stories, though. They were written by a then little-known writer named Doug Moensch, who would go on to be the chief writer of the Batman comics over at DC for quite a while.
A lot of the fantasy films of the early 80's found bits and pieces of their landscapes making it into my worlds. Conan the Barbarian, Excalibur, Ator, The Barbarians, Deathstalker, Gor, and of course Hawk the Slayer (the granddaddy of all B fantasy films).
And speaking of films, the movie Wizards had a huge impact on the sort of things that found themselves into my early games. Gritty, seedy cities where life was cheap. Assassins lurking in the shadows. Horny old wizards. Despotic sorcerers gathering fanatical armies. Scantily clad sylvan girls to tease the aforementioned horny old wizards. Fierce warrior elves who scoffed at magic. Lots of black humor. A Final Encounter that absolutely nobody could have predicted. What's not to like?
Doc
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Post by tgamemaster1975 on Dec 1, 2007 9:16:54 GMT -6
This is a thread I always come back and read, I too had forgotten about the Dr Doolittle books, I also was thinking about Treasure Island and the Hardy boys, they are also influences for me.
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Post by coffee on Dec 1, 2007 18:36:12 GMT -6
I loved Weird World, although all I had was the 3 part series from the early 80s. Good stuff.
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Post by doc on Dec 2, 2007 9:33:33 GMT -6
The first Weird World tale was in Marvel Premiere #38 back in 1977. This was followed by a three part storyline in Marvel Fanfare 24-26. Then there were three magazines called Warriors of the Shadow Realm which were done with lots of bonus art, interviews, behind the scenes notes, etc. The best part was that it included a very comprehensive map of Weird World. FInally, the series culminated in a four issue arc in Epic Illustrated in 1982.
Since that time, there has been no WW tales that I am aware of, but I'm dearly hoping that somebody will pick it up again some day. I actually wrote a WW RPG during college. It was only about thirty pages long, but let me tell you, it was comprehensive!
Doc
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Post by crimhthanthegreat on Dec 2, 2007 19:41:09 GMT -6
I never read any Weird World, can you tell us more about what stories were in it?
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Post by badger2305 on Dec 8, 2007 21:48:27 GMT -6
Here's a list of the authors with the biggest influence on my early days playing D&D: - JRR Tolkien: the Lord of the Rings and The Hobbit, but also The Tolkien Reader, which included "Farmer Giles of Ham" and the "Homecoming of Beorhtnoth Beorhthelm's son" among others.
- Poul Anderson: Three Hearts and Three Lions, The High Crusade, The Broken Sword, just to name a few.
- Ursula K. Le Guin: the Earthsea Trilogy (yes, I know more got added later.
- Fletcher Pratt and L. Sprague de Camp: The Incomplete Enchanter as well as The Well of the Unicorn.
- Robert E. Howard: Conan, Kull, Solomon Kane, you name it.
- Diane Duane: The Door Into Fire. Entirely different take on elementals (among other things).
- Fritz Leiber: Fafhrd and the Grey Mouser series. Thieves, done right.
- Clark Ashton Smith: for sheer strangeness, you can't get better than Clark Ashton Smith. Some of my best ideas about arcane magic and Things Adventurers Were Not Meant to Know came from Smith.
- Lin Carter's The Year's Best Fantasy Series and Flashing Swords anthologies, and Andrew Offutt's Swords Against Darkness anthologies. Got introduced to all sorts of authors this way.
Okay, that's more than five or six. Even so, these are the books that I have fond memories of from when I was a kid. ;D
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Post by Finarvyn on Dec 9, 2007 8:54:02 GMT -6
Tsk, tsk, Badger. You're pushing the edge here.
While we all appreciate the long list, the most interesting list would be the short one. I've read hundreds of fantasy and science fiction books, but what is most interesting is the books that had the biggest impact on you....
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Post by badger2305 on Dec 9, 2007 9:46:47 GMT -6
Tsk, tsk, Badger. You're pushing the edge here. While we all appreciate the long list, the most interesting list would be the short one. I've read hundreds of fantasy and science fiction books, but what is most interesting is the books that had the biggest impact on you.... Hey, you asked... That's the list. Really. I read and continue to read very fast. Ask any of my friends. You should have seen the list of books and authors that didn't make it on my list. It's pretty long. That having been said, if I were pushed, I would have to say that it was the anthologies that had the biggest impact (at least in retrospect). The chance to read many different authors under one cover provided contrast that got me thinking more than just the sweeping epic trilogies and series. Those were...comfort food, so to speak. Hmmm.
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Post by dwayanu on Dec 9, 2007 11:10:38 GMT -6
I think the Swords Against Darkness volumes were especially good.
I'll go out on a limb and call Leiber's Fafhrd & Grey Mouser stories the single biggest influence on my D&D, Moorcock the second.
Between the two, one touches a lot of s&s bases. They brought together elements of Dunsany, Burroughs, Smith, Brackett, Howard, et al. Their eclecticism matches well that of D&D.
Aside: I think C.S. Lewis's Narnia was a big influence on my being predisposed to get hooked on D&D: Visit another world, meet all sorts of fantastic creatures, have great adventures, and then return to one's own life. D&D in turn motivated me (previously much more an SF fan) to read more fantasy.
Back to Leiber and Moorcock. F. and G.M. are the archetypal "professional adventurers" for sure, Lankhmar the prototype for countless FRP cities, Quarmall and Lankhmar Below certainly among the literary seeds of the "dungeon" concept. Nehwhon gave me a ready frame of reference into which D&D fit. There's a wry sense of humor about the proceedings (pulling up short of too-broad parody) that matches my preferred approach to D&D.
The struggle between Law and Chaos suffuses Moorcock's s&s work. The weird realms in his tales gave great inspiration for dungeoneering. Also credit Farmer's "World of Tiers" series and Zelazny's Amber -- but I was steeped in Moorcock before I read much of them, and have more often returned to his books.
Perhaps third place belongs to Jack Vance, especially his Dying Earth stories. His influence on D&D in general is clear for instance in the magic system. The strangeness of his cultures and settings is another big source of inspiration for my underworlds, especially when it comes to roleplaying (as opposed to game-mechanical) challenges. Again, he draws masterfully on those who preceded him (more successfully on Dunsany than have most writers of fantasy).
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Post by James Maliszewski on Dec 9, 2007 11:38:05 GMT -6
In order, the biggest influences on me as a D&D player and DM are probably:
1. Jack Vance: The Dying Earth (far more so than the other books in the same setting) strikes the right balance between wonder and horror and I have always aimed to do the same in my games.
2. Robert E. Howard: I love the way the man mixes up history and fantasy to tell ripping yarns of pulp fantasy.
3. Fritz Leiber: If ever there were a pair of D&D adventurers to be found in the pages of literature, it is Fafhrd and the Gray Mouser.
Honorable mentions go to H.P. Lovecraft, Clark Ashton Smith, Poul Anderson, E.R. Burroughs, and (of course) J.R.R. Tolkien.
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Post by crimhthanthegreat on Dec 9, 2007 21:38:09 GMT -6
I never read any Weird World, can you tell us more about what stories were in it? Anyone want to expand on this a bit? I am really enjoying this thread and would love to hear from every member that has joined us.
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Post by doc on Dec 9, 2007 22:51:18 GMT -6
Weird World was a very art-oriented fantasy series that ran in about 9-10 issues of various Marvel books through the 80's. It featured an amnestic elf who believes himself to be the last of his kind before he encounters a female elf who he watches hatch fully grown from an egg. They spend the series trying to discover what happened to all the other elves, though I don't think they ever actually find out. The series had a distinctive feel with the "bad" guys residing in vast and corrupt cities and the more "good" guys, the dwarves and the two elves, living in pastoral towns far off the beaten track. As the series developed, it got more into high fantasy as a plot was discovered that a fallen evil god was trying to establish dominion in the heavens by corrupting Magic, and it was revealed that all the magic on Weird World was in fact created from the body of the evil god.
Sorcerers in Weird World were almost always evil or insane (usually both) as a reaction of unknowingly using magic that had come directly from an evil god. The deities of the world were actually cold and unfeeling creatures who did indeed "play chess" with the universe. Most of the action took place in fetid swamps, haunted forests, forgotten islands, and secret vales, which contracted sharply with the more urban feel of the twisted, crowded, dirty cities that also seemed to pop up in every story. For my money, the city scenes were the best ones as they were wonderfully drawn with a lot of detail.
The main heroes included the two elves, who appeared childlike and beautiful, an ugly and vulgar dwarf who caused all sorts of tight situations for them, a sorceress who rejected the inherant darkness of magic, and a once-great adventurer who had been cursed with the form of a half-beast and descended into alcoholism.
The monsters were generally excellent. The ones that stick out most in my mind (right now) are the were-men, huge shaggy humanoids that are neither dead, alive, nor undead, but just ARE.
There's a lot that I'm leaving out just 'cause I am getting ready to turn in and my poor lil' brain isn't clicking on all cylinders right now. If you have any specific questions about the series, just ask.
Doc
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Post by coffee on Dec 10, 2007 1:37:16 GMT -6
Here's what Wikipedia has to say:
Weirdworld was a fantasy series created by Doug Moench and Mike Ploog for Marvel Comics set in a dimension of magic not unlike Middle-earth from The Lord of the Rings. The protagonists were two elves : Tyndall and Velanna , both from the floating ring-shaped island of Klarn, and an irascible dwarf dubbed Mud-Butt (because he tended to land on his backside in a quarrel).
Weirdworld was first seen in the first issue of the black and white magazine Marvel Super Action. Then it was featured in the color comic Marvel Premiere #38 (Oct. 1977).
Bibliography
* Marvel Super Action #1 (Jan. 1976) * Marvel Premiere #38 (Oct. 1977) * Marvel Super Special #11-13 (Jun.-Oct. 1979) "Warriors of the Shadow Realm" * Epic Illustrated #9, 11-13 (Dec. 1981-Aug. 1982) "The Dragonmaster of Klarn" * Marvel Fanfare vol. 1 #24-26 (Jan.-May 1986)
The only one I had (and I just found it back a month ago, but haven't re-read it yet) is Warriors of the Shadow Realm.
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Post by doc on Dec 10, 2007 19:50:06 GMT -6
Another series that influenced my take on fantasy during my formative gaming years (1982 to 1985) was The Mercenary series of beautifully rendered graphic novels by V. Segrelles. I don't know if anybody else recalls them, but they were (and are) a real treasure.
Doc
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Post by crimhthanthegreat on Dec 10, 2007 22:04:40 GMT -6
Thank you for the info on Weird World everyone, it sounds like something I would really like and I am sorry that I missed it.
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Post by Wm. Earle Wheeler on Dec 13, 2007 23:47:27 GMT -6
My interest in fantasy began with my introduction to D&D at the age of 8. My only real exposure to the fantasy genre at that time was through toys, cartoons, comic books and "The Hobbit" movie. Later, a few other random Sword & Sorcery movies of the 80s as well, mostly via HBO.
I really didn't start reading fantasy until later... and only this year have I made a dedicated effort to read or re-read the classics of fantasy!!! My interest in fantasy literature grew from playing D&D first, as opposed to the originators of the game (and the original fans!) who played D&D because they loved fantasy literature!
Currently, I would list the following writers as having the greatest influence on me as a D&D player and referee:
Ed Gorey H.P. Lovecraft (especially "Dream of the Unknown Kadath") Jack Vance (mostly just book one of "The Dying Earth") Fritz Lieber (all Lankhmar stuff, the biggest influence for me right now) William S. Burroughs (yeah, I know...)
As for current stuff, my big influences are mostly comic book writers. Neil Gaiman (for American Gods, not Sandman), Alan Moore (for League of Extraordinary Gentlemen) and the current Dark Horse Press run of Conan comics.
I'd have to say that I draw a fair amount of influence from TV and movies as well, especially ensemble fantasy/action shows like Buffy the Vampire Slayer, Firefly, Star Trek, Cowboy Bebop, Twin Peaks and the first two Star Wars movies (the real first two, not the prequels).
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Post by gsvenson on Jan 23, 2008 16:06:49 GMT -6
My biggest influences were:
The Hobbit Lord of the Rings Conan The Tarnsman of Gor
I read most of the Sci Fi and Fantasy literature that was available in the early 70's, but these were the ones that influenced me the most.
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Post by doc on Jan 23, 2008 16:40:42 GMT -6
I don't know if I mentioned it before, but one of the most significant impacts on how I view fantasy comes from the artwork of Frank Frazetta. I have three of his books and each and every page is a dynamo of action and emotion. I've run scenarios, adventures, and even entire campaigns based on some of his images. You won't find any delicate elves or merry enchanters in Frazetta's work; his was a wild and violent world of bloody pulp fantasy. Even now he remains the very best.
Doc
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Post by gsvenson on Jan 25, 2008 15:42:46 GMT -6
For many years I had calendars with Frank Frazetta's pictures hanging on my office wall...
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