New Sun/Gene Wolfe

[philotomy]

admin said:

I have GURPS Horseclans (decent enough sourcebook with a good timeline and such) but know nothing about GURPS New Sun. Care to say just a bit more about it?

This was pretty off-topic for the Psionics thread, so I moved it to a new thread.

The GURPS New Sun sourcebook details the "New Sun" setting of Gene Wolfe's Book of the New Sun. The setting is basically Earth, but set in the very distant future. WAY distant. It's basically a fantasy setting, but has "science fantasy" elements as well. Wolfe's novels are like dark chocolate cheescake: dark, rich, and best savored slowly. They're absolutely loaded with symbolism, obvious and obscure literary allusions, theological and philosophical elements, words drawn from Greek and Latin roots, and little plotline hand grenades that you casually pass over and that go off later in the story.

I first read Wolfe when I was in junior high (I picked up Shadow of the Torturer because it had won awards and received critical acclaim). However, at the time I found it dense, confusing, and difficult. I picked up Wolfe, again, recently, and found the books much more enjoyable. Wolfe is probably not for everyone, but he's become one of my favorite writers.

[Pierce Inverarity]

Book of the New Sun must be read to be believed... If you like Jack Vance, you will like the baroque vocabulary and the general amorality of people. But in Wolfe that amorality is not softened by comedy but is "transcended" by the hero's strange (because emotionally completely unengaging) passage towards redemption.

GURPS New Sun is a mixed bag. It's very useful as a GM's Cliff's Notes of characters, events and the weird names of weird things, but it doesn't convey the spirit of the book at all.

[philotomy]

pierce said:

It's very useful as a GM's Cliff's Notes...but it doesn't convey the spirit of the book at all.

I agree on both counts. However, I can't imagine anything but the book, itself, actually conveying the proper spirit, so I don't hold that against the GURPS supplement.

[crimhthanthegreat]

I loved the Horseclans books but have not read the New Sun book(s). But they sound like a great read.

[simrion]

Wolfe is one of my absolute favorites - outstanding stuff, a must read

[casey777]

pierce said:

GURPS New Sun is a mixed bag. It's very useful as a GM's Cliff's Notes of characters, events and the weird names of weird things, but it doesn't convey the spirit of the book at all.

I view it as a much much cheaper edition* of the same author's Lexicon Urthus so works good at digesting the @_@ of the books. Has the bonus of having artwork and being organized in chapters instead of A-Z. Put that way it's a bargain. Anyone who's a fan of the series or is interested in the books should pick up a copy of the GURPS book to keep handy if they get stumped though IMO both the GURPS book and esp. the Lexicon kinda spoil some stuff.

Personally I'd recommend reading through the original 3 books first *then* trying to read other sources. Part of the charm of the books for me is the multiple layers of writing and how you can both enjoy them on a totally superficial level and yet find something new every reread.

Reading the latter books / related series is up to you, while I found the "space" journey interesting the end result was a bit impressionistic and uber for me. Mind, I'm more a fan of leaving an open non-concluded ending than wrapping up and looping around.


* $10 vs. $250 now that Lexicon Urthus, which wasn't cheap to start with, is out of print? no brainer IMNSHO!

[casey777]

I read Wolfe either around or before Vance (or if I'd read Vance before I didn't quite get why Vance is Vance) and continued working my way backwards. While Wolfe isn't as...jocular? as Vance he does get in some japes and such if you can spot them. Both are good in their own way.

Keep in mind, I find Mervyn Peake an entertaining read.

[vladtolenkov]

The original articles about the GURPS New Sun book which appeared in Pyramid magazine were much more inspiring than the book itself. I'm a big Wolfe fan, but I decided to give GURPS New Sun a skip. It feels pretty lifeless and unimaginative which is weird considering the source material is gold.

Anybody ever think about adapting New Sun to OD&D?

[bert]

No, but I did adapt it to Runequest, after a fashion (for added laughs I put the whole thing on top of hundred mile high plants in the upper atmosphere of a gas giant with transport by airship) but it only came into use for one adventure involving a trip to this peculiar alternate plane.

This was pretty easy to do, given the RQ skill system, you just gave people in each Guild a different set of initial skills. In OD&D you might have to come up with a whole bunch of peculiar character classes or sub classes.

What adventures in the world of the New Sun would actually consist of I am not sure; I suggest anyone actually making the effort to do this write down the key elements that would give such an adventure its distinctive flavour.

Look up the Gene Wolfe short story 'Tracking Song' for another scenario that would make a a good FRPG, or 'Forleson' for those who beleive he does not have a wicked sense of humour.

[driver]

I'm going to be reading it shortly, as I think it will be highly inspirational for my next campaign. I'm not sure how I slept on these books for so long.

[busman]

New Sun is great. You should check out Knight and Wizard as well, also great.

[Thangobrind]

I'm kind of hit and miss with Wolfe, but The Book of the New Sun definitely sits well aside Vance's Dying Earth books and Clark Ashton Smith's Zothique cycle. My favorite thing from Wolfe (so far) has to be The Fifth Head of Cerberus -- such a cryptic sci fi book, something like the mutant offspring of Vance and Stanislaw Lem.

[tavis]

Autarch, the name of the company we formed to publish Adventurer Conqueror King, is among other things a ceremonial offering to the great old one known to mortals as Gene Wolfe.

The Book of the New Sun is probably the most influential work for me in interpreting the "D&D is the apocalypse" trope and settings like the Wilderlands that are so ancient and developed that sufficiently advanced technology is indistinguishable from magic, and both have been forgotten many times.

[DeBracy]

I'm just a chapter or two shy of finishing The Shadow of the Torturer and I've found it to be a surprisingly easy read. It's been a long time since I've had such a flow in reading a book.

Anyway, I really like it so far, especially the fact that Wolfe doesn't stop to explain very much despite dropping names or referencing historic events or common knowledge. I think that's a big key in putting the fantastic into the fantasy for me.

There's a lot of very very cool ideas in here, so I should really start taking notes on stuff to steal for future gaming. (Yes, I steal shamelessly! ;D )

[Deleted]

As you might be able to tell from my name, I'm a pretty big fan of Wolfe. (Sir Ravd is a character from another of his novels, THE WIZARD-KNIGHT.)

[Deleted]

Here's a quote regarding TWK:


"I read and loved these books. My one sort-of claim-to-fame is that I recommended them to Gygax on one of his ENWorld threads, and not only did he read them, he said if The Knight had been around back then, he'd have included it in Appendix N: Inspirational and Educational Reading of the 1e DMG. He disliked how the giants were depicted, though; thought they were too intelligent and organized."

[Deleted]

May 2, 2008 12:43:58 GMT -6 bert said:

Look up the Gene Wolfe short story 'Tracking Song' for another scenario that would make a a good FRPG

Agreed here. (Though it's hard to adapt, given that it is absolutely baffling.)

[deathanddrek]

Oh man, the New (and Long, Short) Sun books are my favorite ever series. The Wizard Knight is good too, I enjoyed it greatly, but I think I enjoyed Latro in the Mist more so. Latro is the reason I want to give an Ancient Greece setting a go.

[Deleted]

Haven't read Latro. i will have to order it.