Religion, politics and D&D

[krusader74]

Religion, politics and D&D

There are three things I have learned never to discuss with people... Religion, Politics, and The Great Pumpkin. --Charles M. Schulz

I am quite sure now that often, very often, in matters concerning religion and politics a man's reasoning powers are not above the monkey's. --Mark Twain

There's an old saying: "Never discuss religion or politics in polite company." At the risk of having this thread deleted or locked, I wanted to make a list of links to articles that mix religion and politics with D&D. Importantly, I wanted to make this list of links without making any judgments about their content. I'm not saying the content being linked to isn't judgmental -- it is highly opinionated. Nor am I saying that I don't have an opinion. But I am not going to express my own personal opinion about it -- I'm simply pointing it out. You can make your own judgments about it, without any input from me.

I'm not putting this thread in the General Board, because I do NOT want to discuss these links -- at least not here. Instead, I am putting this thread with the Links & Resources, in case anyone else has links to other articles or current events that mix politics and religion with D&D.

I ask that if anyone wishes to discuss any of these items, please create a separate thread on the General Board. It is possible to discuss this material in a mature, objective, dispassionate fashion. Examples:

• Jewish D&D from Lee Gold!
• Adventuring in the time of the Crusades -- walks a fine line between good and bad taste but managed not to get locked down
• DEMONIC D&D (locked) -- example of how NOT to tackle this subject

Religion

On The 700 Club, in this recent show from September 27, 2016, in the segment, "Bring It On: Ask Pat a question," Pat Robertson brings up D&D and role-playing. It starts 49 minutes and 33 seconds into the program. You can watch or listen here:

• Hi Def MP4 video
• Low Bandwidth MP4
• Audio only MP3

Here is a rough transcript of the Q&A:

TERRY MEEUWSEN

This is a viewer who says:

"My husband's been playing an online game with other people. The game includes elements of witchcraft. He doesn't think it's bad, but since he started playing the game, my daughters and I have witnessed really weird things happening in our home. We've anointed the house. How do I pray for my husband and how do I convince him that he's bringing bad things into our home? He gets angry when I bring it up." -- VIEWER

PAT ROBERTSON

Well I think you need to get the senior person. Maybe you can find a minister or find some trusted advisor who tells him this is a problem. There was a game called Dungeons & Dragons that people got into. They got into role-playing. The next thing you know, they were in a fantasy world that really captured them. So it is demonic. Demons are out to destroy you. And your husband needs to understand that.

When Dungeons & Dragons Set Off a 'Moral Panic' by Clyde Haberman in the New York Times on April 17, 2016.

GOLEMS & GEMATRIA: roleplaying Jewish characters by Lee Gold. There is already a discussion thread here started by kesher on January 22, 2016 called Jewish D&D from Lee Gold!

The 3-part essay Ethics in Fantasy: Morality and D&D (1996) by Tracy Raye Hickman (archived 2006):

• Part 1: That Evil Game!
• Part 2: Concerned About Role Playing
• Part 3: The Moral Imperative of Fantasy

The Schnoebelen articles:

• Should a Christian Play Dungeons & Dragons? (2001) by William Schnoebelen
• Straight Talk on Dungeons and Dragons (1989) by William Schnoebelen

Patricia Pulling and Bothered About Dungeons & Dragons (B.A.D.D.):

• The introductory letter from B.A.D.D.

Politics

Dungeons And Donalds @dungeonsdonald -- a current satirical twitter feed in which the presidential candidate "makes D&D great again"

Patton Oswalt Ranked the GOP Debate By D&D Statistics collects a series of tweets from October 29, 2015.

Jared Logan's unsuccessful Kicstarter "to raise $200,000.00 in order to hire Hillary Clinton to speak to our Dungeons & Dragons club."

Obama vs. Romney D&D Smack-Down at NYC Gallery in WIRED October 9, 2012

[Deleted]

Obviously, I can't speak for Finarvyn, of course, but as I see it, this a very good addition to the shared resources. - As much as we like to think it this way, D&D is not an item out of time, and the fantasy and gaming subculture is a socially relevant item, by itself. Especially, when there are still people actively working to condemn or to forbid what we do.

As the same time, I politely suggest that everybody refrains from discussing items directly related to the US presidential election of '16 until it's over. I am not a US citizen, and I frankly could care less whether the United States end up electing either Dennis the Menace, or Olenna Tyrell. Yet, at the same time, what I gather from the US public debate is that it is, stronger than in past years, extremely vitriolic, and based around both sides calling the other one bigotted or stupid on a personal level. I don't see the use of discussing that in a community otherwise aiming at friendly discussion of all sorts of free-time activities.

[Finarvyn]

I agree with Rafe that certain topics are hot ones and in general I would avoid bringing them up on these (or other) boards because of the anger that can be generated. That doesn't mean that a general topic wouldn't be allowed or encouraged, but specific ones could be an issue that I'd rather avoid and I suspect most board moderators would say the same.

For example, "Politics in a D&D campaign" sounds like a good one but "Who should win XX election" has flamethrower written all over it. Discussion of a specific mythos (Norse, Roman, Cthulhu, Nehwonian, etc) would be fine but discussing current religion (Christianity, Scientology, Buddhaism, whatever) may step on someone's toes. It's the same problem they have at GenCon where they allow folks to dress up in Roman garb but not Nazi uniforms. I think that discussion of OD&D stats for angels, devils, and demons are that "gray area" where it's probably okay but could offend someone.

Having said all that, I think that this has the potential to be an excellent resource as long as folks play nice.

[krusader74]

More links...


60 Minutes: The 1985 60 Minutes segment on D&D with Gary Gygax and Patricia Pulling. Ed Bradley interviews. Poor video quality -- looks like it was ripped from a VHS recording. The video is 18 minutes long, but this segment only lasts 15 minutes -- the last 3 minutes are from an unrelated segment.





US prison ban: Wisconsin prisons ban D&D because it fuels gang violence, and the US courts affirm the decision: On January 25, 2010, the U.S. 7th Circuit Court of Appeals upheld the ban in SINGER v. RAEMISCH. Here is an excerpt from the beginning of the ruling:

After concluding that the popular role-playing game Dungeons and Dragons (“D & D”) represented a threat to prison security, officials at Wisconsin's Waupun Correctional Institution took action to eradicate D & D within the prison's walls...

And a related news report:

Dungeons & Dragons Prison Ban Upheld By JOHN SCHWARTZJAN. 26, 2010 in the New York Times


More moral panic related articles:

The great 1980s Dungeons & Dragons panic. BBC News. April 11, 2014.

A CHRISTIAN RESPONSE TO DUNGEONS AND DRAGONS (1987) Peter Leithart and George Grant. 22-page PDF.

Dungeons and Dragons - Concerns for the Christian by the Logos Communication Consortium, Inc.

The Top 25: Things Every Christian Should Know About Dungeons & Dragons by Dante Fortson

Confessions of a Dungeons & Dragons Addict by M. Joseph Young

[krusader74]

Jack T. Chick

Here is a link to the 22-panel comic (or Chick tract) entitled Dark Dungeons (1984) by Jack T. Chick. The comic argues that D&D leads players to real-life witchcraft and self-destruction/suicide. Here is an excerpt, the panel in which a Christian evangelical speaker tells players to burn all their occult paraphernalia, including all their D&D stuff:



Here is an article about it:

A Fearmongering Anti-RPG Comic Gets the Film Adaptation It Deserves by Rachel Edidin. May 20, 2014. Wired.

The article has a link to the film version's Ultra HD trailer. (As an aside, the full movie is on YT, but I am not providing links.)

CafePress sells parody T-Shirts with the saying:

I don't want to be Debbie anymore. I want to be Elf-Star.

If you want to discuss any of this, there is already a thread on the recent death of Jack T. Chick on the General Board.

[krusader74]

Elections in Medieval and Ancient times

Today in the US, it's election day, so I thought I'd post links to some articles about how elections worked in Medieval and Ancient times...


8 things you (probably) didn’t know about medieval elections:

1. Elections were a common occurrence: "Medieval people liked their elections: they elected bishops, popes, abbots, mayors, members of parliament, town councils, and so on. Perhaps surprisingly, they also elected their kings."
2. Elections were seen as mixed blessings: "In the Book of Samuel, the existence of kingship itself was an expression of the people’s will: the Israelites wanted a king, and God gave them one. Sometimes elections were simply necessary: kings died without issue, or popes, bishops and abbots had to be chosen, and so on."
3. Elections were supposed to be unanimous: Leaders were supposed to rule by the divine will of God, so how could there be any disagreement? Anyone who disagreed with the majority would usually get put to death.
4. Elections could take a very long time: "After the death of Pope Clement IV in November 1268, it took the cardinals nearly three years to elect a new pope."
5. Elections were concerned with morality
6. The people mattered. But some people mattered more than others: "In 13th-century Florence, in order to be able to vote, one also had to join one of the city's guilds."
7. Election campaigns were frowned upon. But still happened
8. Elections were for life (except when they weren't)

Reeve:

The reeve was a senior official with local responsibilities under the Crown e.g. as the chief magistrate of a town or district.
...
He was usually himself a peasant, and was chosen once a year, generally at Michaelmas. In some manors the reeve was appointed by the lord of the manor, but in others he was elected by the peasants, subject or not to a right of veto by the lord. It depended on the custom of the manor, but there was an increasing tendency for election to be favoured. No doubt an elected reeve was more willingly obeyed...

Athenian democracy:

...developed around the fifth century B.C. in the Greek city-state (known as a polis) of Athens, comprising the city of Athens and the surrounding territory of Attica and is the first known democracy in the world. Other Greek cities set up democracies, most following the Athenian model, but none are as well documented as Athens.

...

It was a system of direct democracy, in which participating citizens voted directly on legislation and executive bills. Participation was not open to all residents: to vote one had to be an adult, male citizen who owned land and was not a slave, and the number of these "varied between 30,000 and 50,000 out of a total population of around 250,000 to 300,000."

...

The word "democracy" (Greek: δημοκρατία) combines the elements dêmos (δῆμος, which means "people", "neighbourhood", "district") and krátos (κράτος, which means "force" or "power").

...

Athens was not the only polis in Ancient Greece that instituted a democratic regime. Aristotle cites many other cities as well.

...

The use of a lottery to select officeholders was regarded as the most democratic means: elections would favour those who were rich, noble, eloquent and well-known, while allotment spread the work of administration throughout the whole citizen body, engaging them in the crucial democratic experience of, to use Aristotle's words, "ruling and being ruled in turn"

...

During an Athenian election, approximately one hundred officials out of a thousand were elected rather than chosen by lot. There were two main categories in this group: those required to handle large sums of money, and the 10 generals, the strategoi.

Voting and elections in Biblical times:

To replace Judas (Acts 1:12–26), the disciples prayed and "cast lots." This was probably not a vote, but more like pulling a name out of a hat or throwing dice (see below), thus leaving the decision to God in some sense. As stated above, Athenian Greeks felt that a lottery was more Democratic than an election!

Then they drew lots (other translations have 'cast lots') to choose between the two men, and the one chosen was Matthias (Acts 1:26)

What is casting lots in Scripture?

The tradition of casting lots is in the Bible several times. They are thought to have been used in 1Samuel 14:40 - 42. In this case, however, it is not the lots but rather the Urim and Thummim used to render a decision. According to the first century Jewish historian Josephus, the Urim was composed of two sardonyx stones, each one within a pouch in the Breastplate worn by the High Priest.

The primary reason for casting lots was to render an impartial, unbiased decision on important matters. Once they were cast, no one could argue that the decision was the result of human intervention like nepotism, politics, favoritism, and so on. This practice would be the same as throwing dice or flipping a coin we commonly use today. In ancient times, they used varying means to cast lots, depending on the place and local customs, such as coins, polished sticks, cards, dice, and so on.

The Urim and Thummim were likely quartz stones that functioned like coins (or 2-sided dice), one side "yes" and the other "no":




Betei Din:

Kings of Israel had too much to do and delegated much of their authority to wisemen/judges. These courts were called Betei Din (Houses of Judgment). (The singular is Bet Din.) The largest court was the Sanhedrin which met on the temple mount and consisted of 71 judges. There were courts with 23 judges. And the smallest court was 3 judges, found in villages with a population of less than 120 people.

Whenever these courts needed to decide an important matter, like a capital offense, they took a vote. A simple majority wasn't sufficient to decide such a case--there had to be a supermajority:

The very first page of the Talmudic tractate of Sanhedrin (2a) tells us that we do not follow a simple majority to execute but we do follow a simple majority to acquit (source).

Even Jesus, in the New Testament, seems to delegate his authority to a Bet Din:

Again I say unto you, That if two of you shall agree on earth as touching any thing that they shall ask, it shall be done for them of my Father which is in heaven. (Matthew 18:19)

Read in context, this passage seems to be saying that whenever there's a question or dispute, it should be brought to a panel of 2 or 3 community leaders, and whatever the majority (2) decide, is authoritative.


The Source for Elections in the Torah by Rosh Hayeshiva and Harav Mordechai Greenberg... This article cites the sources for the idea that a community leader (a rabbi, a judge, or even a king) is not appointed without prior consultation with the people:

There is an important source for the need to consult with the people in the Gemara (Brachot 55a):

R. Yitzchak said: We do not appoint a leader over the community without consulting with the people, as it says, "See, G-d called in the name of Bezalel." (Shemot 31:2)

G-d said to Moshe: Moshe, is Bezalel acceptable to you?[Moshe] said to Him: Master of the Universe! If he is acceptable to you -- certainly to me![G-d] said to him: Even so, go and tell them. He went and said to Israel: Is Bezalel acceptable to you? They said to him: If he is acceptable to G-d and to you -- certainly to us!

Rav Kook, in Ein Aya, explains what the three stages were. A leader needs three qualities: First, he needs inner character ­– sanctity, purity and morality. Second, he needs pragmatic ability to lead the people. Third, he needs external impression – ability of speech, etc. (what we call charisma). However, the three are not equal. The first and most important quality, only G-d knows. The second quality, people can judge, but not everyone. The third, and least important, everyone can tell. Therefore, first G-d gave his approval, indicating the first quality, then Moshe, and then the people. Unfortunately, nowadays the order is reversed, and people focus on external qualities first.

This is the source for the need to ask the people's opinion.

[krusader74]

Election humor

Though not at all D&D related, this is still my favorite piece of non-partisan election humor:



On The Simpsons, in the episode entitled "Treehouse of Horror VII" (October 27, 1996), in the segment called Citizen Kang, Kang and Kodos, a brother-and-sister duo of aliens from Rigel VII, impersonate Bill Clinton and Bob Dole in order to win the 1996 Presidential election. On the day before the election, Homer Simpson reveals the candidates' real identities. Despite being exposed, Kang and Kodos declare to the people that they have to choose between one of them because "it's a two-party system." One man in the crowd announces that he will vote for a third-party candidate, but Kang and Kodos mockingly encourage him to "go ahead, throw your vote away." Kang is subsequently elected President and quickly enslaves all of humanity into building a giant ray gun to aim at an unknown planet. Homer smugly states:

Don't blame me, I voted for Kodos.

And yes, there's a T-Shirt.