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Post by keolander on Mar 4, 2016 5:28:29 GMT -6
Okay,
ever since learning of the original Castles & Crusades Society map I have been intrigued how it could be used as a campaign world. It has several advantages, I think, over later published D&D settings: namely it is the easiest way to have classic Greyhawk and Blackmoor together again without resorting to dimension/world hopping/time-travel. I love the fact that there appear to be large swaths of open space (and The Great Kingdom really does appear to be a massive Holy Roman Empire-type entity). It also has the advantage of removing the built-up Flanaess that has come to exist since Gary left TSR. In short, it really is perfect for a homebrew campaign. I also plan on using the population figures from the Greyhawk Folio and NOT the enormously inflated ones from the 3E Living Gazetteer.
Now, among the things that are missing from the map are some of the classic "wild and woolly" published Flanaess areas like The Wild Coast, The Pomarj and Hepmonaland. That and I have a real soft spot for The Sheldomar Valley area (Keoland, Sterich, The Gran March and Bissel spefically), though The Duchy of Geoff is on the map. Adding in the Keolandic confederation should be easy, since it would require only slight emendation, though making them land-locked, which might not be that bad (since the Valley would end at the southern edge of the map where there is a massive mountain range).
Now, I noticed that below that southern mountain range the map indicates the land goes on....so a perfect place to put The Wild Coast and The Pomarj! Setting them much further from The Great Kingdom would allow the area to be the equivalent of The Barbary States of North Africa, which was the general feel of The Slave Lords series anyway. The Hold of the Sea Princes would be just another petty kingdom of The Wild Coast.
As for Hepmonaland, I'm more inclined to think of it as even further south off the map, below The Wild Coast. I'm also more partial to it being reenvisioned as a Central African type sub-continent as opposed to a Central American one.
Before I forget, was there EVER a name for the Castles & Crusades Society Map's continent?
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Post by simrion on Mar 4, 2016 7:58:33 GMT -6
But where's the map? ;-)
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Post by grodog on Mar 15, 2016 17:20:20 GMT -6
I posted a version of it, colored to help clarify the geographical terrain elements:  |
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Post by keolander on May 12, 2016 21:49:39 GMT -6
Awesome color job Grodog! I decided to take the plunge and am in the process of gearing up to do a Castles & Crusades/AD&D 1E-merge campaign using the C&CS Domesday Map. I decided on using Blackmoor as the starting point, with Keep on the Borderlands being the first module I'm going to run. I'm in the process of converting a number of classes to C&C (as its easier on the whole dice rolling for skill checks), but I'm also doing map mods.....  |
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Post by bestialwarlust on May 13, 2016 9:55:20 GMT -6
I agree I've come to a similar liking to this map (stole the colored version from Grodog) to use. I'll be keeping most of it the same though I've added Blackmarsh over off the cost east of the Great Kingdom castle mark.
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Post by Deleted on May 21, 2016 7:25:23 GMT -6
...And is it just me, or does Geoff/Neron March/Faraz look suspiciously like the Outdoor Survival Map?
Strange that I#ve looked at the map for so many times, and never noticed.
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Post by Zenopus on May 21, 2016 8:39:25 GMT -6
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Post by bestialwarlust on May 22, 2016 6:53:32 GMT -6
Will you be using the "official" Greyhawk pantheon or one of your own making?
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Post by keolander on May 22, 2016 20:29:19 GMT -6
Will you be using the "official" Greyhawk pantheon or one of your own making? Okay, where to start.....I'm using a modified official Greyhawk pantheon (cut way down) with some additional gods from Blackmoor (Hak, Hadeen, Yoosef, Gulup-Ther, Zugzul, 2 additional Base Elements: Plants & Metal) and some demihuman deities (Gruumsh, Magubliyet). On top of that, I threw in some Airdhe and DragonLance for good measure (The High God, Unklar the Horned One, 3 moons of magic). I also did some monkeying with the Demihuman deities: the Seldarine are now Immortal Elves who found the lands of Fairy (called Shindolay, cribbed from Airdhe) and some of the others like Blibdoolpoolp will have human (mostly Flan) followers. To top it off, I made Pholtus an interloper god who followed Tharizdun's (also an interloper) trail to counter him. Finally, I added Vilp-akf-cho Rentaq (The Elder Elemental Eye) and his Servants of Elemental Evil (Yan-C Bin for Air, Imix for Fire, Uzrith for Earth, Olhydra for Water, Ehak for Plants and Zaaman Rul for Metal). Then there are the Infernals who are on the same level as Demi-Gods (Lolth, Yeenoghu, Zuggtmoy, Graz'zt). I'm still debating whether I want the Hero-Deities at all or maybe modify them to be Immortals. I decided that Paladins and Anti-Paladins don't follow Gods, per se, but follow Saints (sort of Platonic ideals who were/are Paladins/Anti-Paladins) like Cuthbert, Mayaheine, Stephen the Rock (Anti-Paladin Saint of Technology). A few other odds and ends were added as well (some from Airdhe, some from Greyhawk).  |
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Post by Deleted on May 22, 2016 23:02:01 GMT -6
Yeah, it seems like it wouldn't have been possible. However, there with the river delta --- if you see it, you can't unsee it. Suffice to say, though, later depictions of Geoff don't reflect any possible connection, at all. Who created the OSM, by the way? I am not really acquainted with Avalon Hill history... |
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Post by bestialwarlust on May 23, 2016 7:08:55 GMT -6
Will you be using the "official" Greyhawk pantheon or one of your own making? Okay, where to start.....I'm using a modified official Greyhawk pantheon (cut way down) with some additional gods from Blackmoor (Hak, Hadeen, Yoosef, Gulup-Ther, Zugzul, 2 additional Base Elements: Plants & Metal) and some demihuman deities (Gruumsh, Magubliyet). On top of that, I threw in some Airdhe and DragonLance for good measure (The High God, Unklar the Horned One, 3 moons of magic). I also did some monkeying with the Demihuman deities: the Seldarine are now Immortal Elves who found the lands of Fairy (called Shindolay, cribbed from Airdhe) and some of the others like Blibdoolpoolp will have human (mostly Flan) followers. To top it off, I made Pholtus an interloper god who followed Tharizdun's (also an interloper) trail to counter him. Finally, I added Vilp-akf-cho Rentaq (The Elder Elemental Eye) and his Servants of Elemental Evil (Yan-C Bin for Air, Imix for Fire, Uzrith for Earth, Olhydra for Water, Ehak for Plants and Zaaman Rul for Metal). Then there are the Infernals who are on the same level as Demi-Gods (Lolth, Yeenoghu, Zuggtmoy, Graz'zt). I'm still debating whether I want the Hero-Deities at all or maybe modify them to be Immortals. I decided that Paladins and Anti-Paladins don't follow Gods, per se, but follow Saints (sort of Platonic ideals who were/are Paladins/Anti-Paladins) like Cuthbert, Mayaheine, Stephen the Rock (Anti-Paladin Saint of Technology). A few other odds and ends were added as well (some from Airdhe, some from Greyhawk). That sounds very cool. Nice mash up. I've done something similar with cutting down the initial GH pantheon. I haven't added any from the Blackmoor yet I'm still deciding on what others to add or not add. So far from GH I have: Celestian —is the god of Stars and Wanderers Cuthbert — Wisdom, Dedication, and Zeal. Erythnul —hate, envy, malice, panic, ugliness, and slaughter Heironeous —Chivalry, Justice, Honor, War, Daring, and Valor Hextor —god of war, discord, massacres, conflict, fitness, and tyranny. Iuz —Deceit, Evil, Oppression, Pain, and Wickedness Obad-hai —The god of nature, woodlands, hunting, and beasts Olidammara —Music, Revels, Wine, Rogues, Humor, and Tricks Ralishaz —The god of Chance, Ill Luck, Misfortune, and Insanity Trithereon —The god of Individuality, Liberty, Retribution, and Self-Defense For Tharidun/EEG type I'm porting in Morgath from the Harn setting. |
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Post by keolander on Jun 23, 2016 20:03:13 GMT -6
Well, using Microsoft Paint, I did a little modifying to the map since I wanted The Land of Black Ice and The Burneal Forest. Somewhere up there is the fabled City of the Gods.... ![]()  |
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luc
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Post by luc on Jul 8, 2016 2:00:55 GMT -6
I posted a version of it, colored to help clarify the geographical terrain elements: That map matches up pretty well with the map from the First Fantasy Campaign (pg 12 in the 1980 edition). Which I suppose it should, given that Dave describes that he "reserved a small area out of the center of the Great Kingdom map of the IFW's Castle & Crusade SocIety " |
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Post by aldarron on Oct 13, 2016 7:54:10 GMT -6
So it's crude, but serves my purposes as a campaign map; I madethis back in march of 2014 but I don't think I ever posted it here. What prolly jumps out is that I used Arneson's hand drawn map from the mid '70's included with the First Fantasy Campaign book. I noticed that the peninsulas marked "northern Barbarians" (labaled Simmeria on my map in honor of Gronan) exactly match to peninsulas on Arneson's map east of the land of coot. This makes it apparent that Arneson essentially squeezed the C&C map, so that the wetern 2/3rds of the "Great Bay" dissapear and the little peninsula sticking up from the great Kingdom at the eastern edge of the bay is redrawn as Blackmoor. This is working off a map that Snorri made and incorporating Zenopus notes. I followed Norton's descriptions of Faraaz and Yerocunby from Quag Keep. so the location differs a little from where Zenopus had them. I also include the wild coast since it's mentioned in the original version of tomb of Horrors along with those Blackmoor locations. Comments very welcome!  I know the image quality is crappy and hard to read. The photobucket copy can be seen here: i88.photobucket.com/albums/k192/mayboggs/Tables/BlackmoorGreatKingdomMap_zps6250e58a.jpg |
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Post by Deleted on Oct 13, 2016 8:41:07 GMT -6
What's the name of the islands in the South East?  |
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Post by aldarron on Oct 14, 2016 15:39:50 GMT -6
Bolgera Islands - that's a Blackmoor thing from the DA series if I recall correctly.
My campaign notes for the place lift a description from one of the Greyhawk products, but mix in a Blackmoor name or two. Here it is:
Bolgera Islands – (Aka the Jungle Realm) Home of a dark skinned people (the Bolgers – think Sri Lanka, Andaman isles) . an archipelago of tropical volcanic islands to the southeast of Catmeulun and the wild coast. redolent with piracy, political intrigue, nautical adventure, exotic jungles, and tropical storms. (GH - The Lordship of the Isles) The Bolgeras comprises seven main islands in the archipelago. In order of decreasing population and importance, they are
• Diren (Capital: Sulward. For years the centre of power in the Isles.)
• Ansabo (Capital: Duxchan)
• Ganode (capital: Mahan)
• Jehlum (capital Durenia) settled by Bolgers on the coast only. Interior “Jungle of lost souls” inhabited by Taweii
• Mirim, inhabited by Taweii tribesmen, said to have been the seat of an ancient Taweii empire.
• Luda, inhabited by the cannibalistic Kawibusas tribesmen and often simply called the “Isle of the Ape” this savage isle is avoided by all.
• Temil, sometimes known as Tangor, a savage island believed to have no human habitation.
Due to the southern latitude of the archipelago, the region enjoys a tropical climate, where heat and humidity blanket the islands year round. The islands as are covered in jungle except for the highest elevations of the dormant volcano peaks that are central to most of the islands. The weather is generally fair despite daily showers, except in the late summer months when great tropical storms sweep north out of the sea
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Post by Deleted on Oct 14, 2016 22:49:10 GMT -6
Thank you for the explanation! Now, as you know, we've completely different approaches to the World of Blackmoor, and I would likely make "Bolgerie" something different. (I think I went cheap in the LFC, and made some sort of "Bulgaria" out of it, based on the homophony.) But I like your equation with the Lordship of the Isles; from "Scarlet Brotherhood", right? - Slightly off-topic, but I think the idea of a High-Thonian enclave, like 2e Greyhawk did with the Suel, in BM would be nice to explore. - of course, not orthodox, not in tune with the original designs, but an interesting spin on the setting, perhaps.
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Post by jmccann on Oct 15, 2016 11:06:31 GMT -6
Who created the OSM, by the way? I am not really acquainted with Avalon Hill history... James Dunnigan, of SPI fame, designed the game for AH. There is a story that it was in response to a bet that JD could design a game about anything. I don't believe there were any direct connections at the time between DA and him or any of the New York SPI crowd although I think the Twin Cities and LGTSA groups would have been familiar w/ S&T since Siege of Bodenberg was in the July 1967 issue. Can you describe more fully what you see as similar between the maps? I don't see similarity. |
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Post by Deleted on Oct 28, 2016 6:48:02 GMT -6
Hey, James! Sorry for being late with my answer, and sorry for being vague with it, as well: I honestly don't remember the specifics - I guess some versions of the maps looked somewhat alike, plainly and simply. I'll check this over the weekend, though, and look if I find the maps I have in mind. - And many thanks for the info; didn't make the connection to Jim Dunnigan, at all. Returned here because I realized the map from my home campaign ended up looking suspiciously like the Flanaess map; since it's honestly just a coincidence, I just wondered if I've played D&D so long that I am getting Freudian about it... -_-  |
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Post by Finarvyn on Jun 24, 2019 5:33:54 GMT -6
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Post by grodog on Jun 24, 2019 20:08:11 GMT -6
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