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Post by derv on Feb 17, 2016 18:01:13 GMT -6
I've read Tales of the Dying Earth. Loved it.
I've read The Demon Princes. Loved it.
I've read Planet of Adventure. Loved it.
I've just started to make my way through The Complete Lyonesse. I'm already sucked into this tale.
Vance is one of only a couple authors who I can honestly say have never failed to entertain me.
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Post by geoffrey on Feb 17, 2016 19:50:32 GMT -6
I envy you.
The first Vance book I read was The Dying Earth. I loved it, and I have since re-read it many times, loving it each time.
Nothing I've tried of his other than The Dying Earth gives me enjoyment. I read its three sequels and the first half of the first Lyoness book. It's like a different person wrote The Dying Earth (on the one hand) and everything else (on the other). What I wouldn't give for dozens of books of the same ilk as The Dying Earth!
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Post by derv on Feb 17, 2016 22:21:08 GMT -6
I agree with you geoffrey that The Dying Earth is on the top of the list. It is indeed one of my favorites.
Certainly, many of his other books take on a different tone. But, I have found Vance's voice consistent in all his writing. In his style, he always engages me.
You really should give Lyonesse another shot. It starts off a little slow. Though, if you persevere, I think you will be pleasantly rewarded. To me, so far (since I have not yet read the complete omnibus), it is very D&D in atmosphere.
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Post by Deleted on Feb 18, 2016 3:20:47 GMT -6
Personally, The Eyes of the Overworld is one of my favorite books, even more than The Dying Earth; I also enjoyed The Dragon Masters. But Cugel's Saga and Rhialto didn't grab me; neither did Planet.
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Post by Finarvyn on Feb 18, 2016 5:34:37 GMT -6
Personally, The Eyes of the Overworld is one of my favorite books, even more than The Dying Earth; Cugel's Saga and Rhialto didn't grab me My Vance experience has been much like yours. Eyes of the Overworld was fantastic, Dying Earth good but not great, Cugel's Saga and Rhialto didn't give me the same thrill at all. I tried Lyonesse and gave up on it. Too soon, it sounds like. Maybe I'll have to track it down again and give it another shot. |
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Post by Red Baron on Mar 4, 2016 10:42:33 GMT -6
first half of the first Lyonesse book. I tried Lyonesse and gave up on it. Too soon, it sounds like. Maybe I'll have to track it down again and give it another shot. The best part of the books are Shimrod's adventures. There's a great chapter in Suldrun's Garden where he travels into an alternate dimension named Irerly, and interactions with the pair of gryphs guarding at Murgen's manse are entertaining throughout the series. In The Green Pearl, Visbhume, Glyneth, and the space-pirate Kul have an interesting adventure in the alternate dimension of Tanjecterly. the latter two books also have a sparse few scenes with unhelpful sandestins and greedy inkeepers. A lot of Lyonesse is fairly hard to stomach however, and is only readable by virtue of Vance's entertaining dialogue and his descriptions of flora and color. |
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Post by Red Baron on Mar 4, 2016 11:13:45 GMT -6
The Red Baron's Vance Review
The Demon Princes books have excellent passages and exchanges, but are overall also very weak for Vance.
The Planet of Adventure stories are very weak stories period, and I would not recommend them at all.
Araminta Station is an enchanting story, and really highlights Vance's beautiful descriptions and witty dialogue. It actually has a modicum of plotting which is rare for Vance. The subsequent Cadwal Chronicles unfortunately don't live up to the promise of the first book.
I believe his most "d&d" books to be neither the Lyonesse nor Dying Earth books, but the story The Miracle Workers (which does not employ vancian magic), and to a lesser extent The Last Castle and Dragon Masters. These stories are very similar in a lot of ways; the basic premise is that men have colonized a world and no longer remember how to use their ships and technology of the past, but instead live as knights in a handful of castles smattered across the landscape.
The best of the Rhialto stories is by far Morreion, the others are forgettable.
Vance has a number of lesser known Sci-fi series and short stories which uniformly tend to focus on the byzantine cultures of men on distant worlds: their foods, their moralities, the houses and clans that comprise them. Vance also likes to explore alien cognitive processes, and is good at conveying psychologies which are absolutely inhuman.
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Post by Deleted on Mar 4, 2016 20:06:19 GMT -6
The Dragon Masters is a fine story, but Vance's amorality comes out somewhat irritatingly in it (to me).
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Post by Red Baron on Mar 4, 2016 22:50:55 GMT -6
The Dragon Masters is a fine story, but Vance's amorality comes out somewhat irritatingly in it (to me). What moral qualms do you have with it? Many of Vance's characters are far less scrupulous than those in The Dragon Masters. |
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Post by Deleted on Mar 5, 2016 0:25:07 GMT -6
Indeed. But Cugel's amorality is played for laughs and it is tacitly acknowledged how amoral he is, whereas (as I recall) the rather brutal experimentation conducted by the humans on the "dragons" is treated very flatly, and even in a context of heroism.
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Post by derv on Mar 5, 2016 14:29:40 GMT -6
Gee, I certainly can't argue with others personal opinions about what they have read from Vance. It does strikes me as odd, since we are talking about omnibuses that are really multiple individual volumes, that a person would attempt to read so much of what they don't enjoy. Maybe I'm simply the odd man out here in his views of Vance's writing.
I will admit that his writing style can sometimes give off the appearance and quality of a drunken meandering from one plot point to another. I can see how this may not appeal to everyone. But, I rather enjoy the journey. Where will drunken uncle Vance take us this time?
Besides, Vance's strength is really in how he fully develops his settings where the stories occur. This creates vivid illustrations for the reader to draw from. I find this immersive and need say no more.
I also tend to read many of Vance's "theme's" and witticism's, even the inclusion of amorality, as social commentaries to chew on. Possibly I'm giving him too much credit.
"Vive et alteros vivere permitte"
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flightcommander
Level 6 Magician
"I become drunk as circumstances dictate."
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Post by flightcommander on Apr 6, 2017 12:17:17 GMT -6
Of the four Dying Earth novels, I find the two Cugel volumes the most entertaining in terms of language, plot, inventiveness, and re-readability. I recently enjoyed the Lyonesse trilogy in handy e-book format and, while I was somewhat wobbly for the first few chapters dealing with Suldrun — a peculiar narrative mode is deployed here to emphasize her sadness and isolation — I was quickly hooked and hoovered up all remaining pages forthwith, appendices included. One aspect I particularly enjoyed was the wild shifts, in both setting and tone, between the human world and the worlds of magic.
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Post by Starbeard on Apr 7, 2017 8:00:50 GMT -6
I have to admit that I'm one of the small crowd that always loves whatever I read by Vance. My favourite Vance story at any given moment is always the last one I read. You can definitely see less consistency in the writing style of his earliest works and shorts, like Sjambak, but I still find them compelling and uniquely imaginative. My most recents forays were the Big Planet books: Big Planet and Showboat World. They usually don't show up on any Best of Vance lists, but in my opinion they're excellent examples of Vance's mastery of writing utterly alien, picaresque vignettes, 'as they are' and not 'as we feel they should be'. I enjoy the way he would rarely delve into the thoughts and psyches of the characters, but instead state only the emperically obvious: what was done, what was seen, what was said. He had a knack for using these descriptions to imply the deepest nuances of motive and character without ever having to address them directly. I can understand why many would find his writing style objectionable from an ethical standpoint. In many ways he constructs a very Aristotelian way of viewing the world. The question is never, 'Why did the characters do this?', but 'What will the characters do next?' |
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Post by retrorob on Dec 12, 2021 10:25:41 GMT -6
I've read only The Dying Earth, The Eyes of the Overworld and the Lyonesse trilogy. All of them I liked, and especially the early stories. Vance was a powerful storyteller with a great vision. I plan to read The Last Castle and The Dragon Masters. As Gygax indicated Vance as one of his favorite writers, we are all deeply indebted to him.
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Post by Deleted on Dec 12, 2021 12:55:27 GMT -6
I've read only The Dying Earth, The Eyes of the Overworld and the Lyonesse trilogy. All of them I liked, and especially the early storiesv. Vance was a powerful storyteller with a great vision. I plan to read The Last Castle and The Dragon Masters. As Gygax indicated Vance as one of his favorite writers, we are all deeply indebted to him. Those two are sold with a third story I also enjoy called The Miracle Workers. It features yet another different flavor of Vancian Magic. |
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Post by retrorob on Dec 12, 2021 13:21:31 GMT -6
I've read only The Dying Earth, The Eyes of the Overworld and the Lyonesse trilogy. All of them I liked, and especially the early storiesv. Vance was a powerful storyteller with a great vision. I plan to read The Last Castle and The Dragon Masters. As Gygax indicated Vance as one of his favorite writers, we are all deeply indebted to him. Those two are sold with a third story I also enjoy called The Miracle Workers. It features yet another different flavor of Vancian Magic. I don't think the third one was ever published in Poland. Perhaps I'll get an ebook in English, when I'm done with the rest  Similar The Dying Earth cycle. We had only first two volumes printed. Vance isn't popular in my country. |
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Post by Deleted on Dec 12, 2021 14:49:56 GMT -6
Those two are sold with a third story I also enjoy called The Miracle Workers. It features yet another different flavor of Vancian Magic. I don't think the third one was ever published in Poland. Perhaps I'll get an ebook in English, when I'm done with the rest Similar The Dying Earth cycle. We had only first two volumes printed. Vance isn't popular in my country. Ah, that's a shame. It's a very good short story. |
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Post by tombowings on Dec 13, 2021 3:13:08 GMT -6
T'sais might be my favorite character in all fantasy literature.
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