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Post by thegreyelf on Nov 21, 2015 13:34:30 GMT -6
Hey, everyone,
Been some time since I've been around these parts. Sorry for my absence...things just drifted away, largely due to my work with Troll Lord Games which has taken up most of my game-related focus lately ("lately" being the past several years).
Anyway, I've started to turn my thoughts back to retro gaming and OD&D in particular lately and I've started playing around with a new set of "clone" rules inspired by Chainmail. They won't be a 100% faithful retroclone, but more along the lines of what I did with Spellcraft & Swordplay, but as a miniatures system. They'll focus heavily on the fantasy aspect and tone down the historical one, and will try to better codify and explain the rules for those who haven't played war games before. I haven't decided if I'll include rules for cannons, since gunpowder weaponry doesn't really go along with the kind of fantasy we're talking, though I could perhaps put gunpowder weapons in an appendix.
I'm not sure what form these rules will take when they're finally done. I don't even have a working title, yet, but it'll probably be something original rather than the expected play on "Chainmail". There is a POSSIBILITY that they might be put out by a major publisher. If not, I'll likely release them as a new Elf Lair Games product.
Yes, I'm sure others have done many retroclones of Chainmail. What will set mine apart? Dunno. I'm not really looking to be in competition with anyone, just add a new fun rules set to the table and contribute to the discussion once more.
Really, this is mostly just my way of re-introducing myself to the group and letting you all know what I'm up to. Hopefully some folks around here still remember me!
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Post by delverinthedark on Nov 21, 2015 14:23:04 GMT -6
That sounds like a most worthy pursuit! I hope you'll keep us apprised as to how it proceeds!
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oldkat
Level 6 Magician
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Post by oldkat on Nov 21, 2015 14:25:14 GMT -6
Nice to see you back, grey--
sounds like quite a project.
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Post by thegreyelf on Nov 21, 2015 14:33:22 GMT -6
That sounds like a most worthy pursuit! I hope you'll keep us apprised as to how it proceeds! Absolutely. Life is a lot more complex for me these days and I don't work as fast as I once did, consequently. But I'll try to keep up with it and keep everyone posted. I may try to rook one of my FLGS's that specializes in minis gaming to test it out as I work on it. |
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Post by Finarvyn on Nov 21, 2015 18:42:44 GMT -6
Glad to see you stop by here occasionally. I've been following your work with AMAZING ADVENTURES through Troll Lord Games and hope that others take the time to check it out so that your time away from here isn't wasted.  Good to hear that you're thinking about old school stuff again. I'll be very interested to see what CHAINMAIL goodies you come up with.... |
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Deleted
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Post by Deleted on Nov 21, 2015 21:06:37 GMT -6
Sounds worthwhile.
Meanwhile, sometime in January I expect to start work on "Cap-a-Pie," which will be a clone of the original CHAINMAIL historical rules, both 1:20 and man to man, because you can't copyright a game system.
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Post by waysoftheearth on Nov 22, 2015 1:39:03 GMT -6
Who currently owns the Chainmail IP?
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Post by Stormcrow on Nov 22, 2015 10:52:03 GMT -6
Hasbro.
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Post by mgtremaine on Nov 22, 2015 15:25:21 GMT -6
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Post by thegreyelf on Nov 26, 2015 5:42:36 GMT -6
Got to work on this a bit last Sunday. It's coming along pretty well. The rules for Chainmail are, as I'm sure everyone knows, surprisingly simple as wargames go. Mostly I'm working on a lot of reorganization and clarification so that they read more intuitively for those who (a) don't play wargames and (b) haven't read these things hundreds of times like all of us  I'm also covering both the mass combat and skirmish (man to man) rules. I may put the jousting rules in there as well, just because I like them. |
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Post by thegreyelf on Nov 26, 2015 6:19:36 GMT -6
Glad to see you stop by here occasionally. I've been following your work with AMAZING ADVENTURES through Troll Lord Games and hope that others take the time to check it out so that your time away from here isn't wasted. Good to hear that you're thinking about old school stuff again. I'll be very interested to see what CHAINMAIL goodies you come up with.... Thanks, man, I appreciate it! I'm really proud of Amazing Adventures and hope I get to keep producing for it for years to come. The industry is in a rough place right now and it's tough for a lot of publishers to figure out a way forward that's economically viable. For awhile that was Kickstarter but there's a lot of once-bitten burnout going on with that platform right now. Which isn't to say there's trouble in paradise, just that with the recent failure of the Brimstone and the Borderhounds Kickstarter we're re-jiggering our approach and figuring out how to best move forward. I'm currently working on some smaller projects for TLG while we work out a game plan, which is giving me some breathing room to look at the old school stuff again. |
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Post by Finarvyn on Nov 26, 2015 7:35:02 GMT -6
with the recent failure of the Brimstone and the Borderhounds Kickstarter we're re-jiggering our approach and figuring out how to best move forward. I'm wondering if that was more the topic than the platform. I know that I had never even heard of the comic or cartoon on which the RPG was based, and possilby others were in the same situation. Hard to get fired up over something like that.  |
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Deleted
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Post by Deleted on Nov 26, 2015 15:59:46 GMT -6
Got to work on this a bit last Sunday. It's coming along pretty well. The rules for Chainmail are, as I'm sure everyone knows, surprisingly simple as wargames go. Mostly I'm working on a lot of reorganization and clarification so that they read more intuitively for those who (a) don't play wargames and (b) haven't read these things hundreds of times like all of us I'm also covering both the mass combat and skirmish (man to man) rules. I may put the jousting rules in there as well, just because I like them. How exact a duplicate are you talking about? Because my intent is to duplicate CHAINMAIL system wise exactly, rewrite the descriptions a tiny bit, reorganize, and post it as a PDF somewhere for free. I don't want to be doing essentially the same thing. Also, back in CHAINMAIL's day, a lot of miniatures wargames were that size or smaller. And there was a plethora of homebrew systems for every historical period. |
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Post by thegreyelf on Nov 26, 2015 19:47:41 GMT -6
How exact a duplicate are you talking about? Because my intent is to duplicate CHAINMAIL system wise exactly, rewrite the descriptions a tiny bit, reorganize, and post it as a PDF somewhere for free. I don't want to be doing essentially the same thing. Also, back in CHAINMAIL's day, a lot of miniatures wargames were that size or smaller. And there was a plethora of homebrew systems for every historical period. The actual game play, I'm hoping, will be very close. What I am doing, however, is re-focusing on the fantasy elements--integrating them into the core--and not at all focusing on historical play. I'm also heavily reorganizing and rewording so that it's more welcoming to new gamers not familiar with wargaming. Obviously, some terminology and presentation will have to be altered because, as you observed, you can't copyright a rules system...but you can copyright the expression of those rules. That means of necessity there will be some difference. I think we're safely distant enough to justify both projects. Mine is going to be more "inspired by," along the lines of what I did with Spellcraft & Swordplay to OD&D. It'll be somewhere between a clone and a nostalgia game. |
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Post by thegreyelf on Nov 26, 2015 19:50:41 GMT -6
I'm wondering if that was more the topic than the platform. I know that I had never even heard of the comic or cartoon on which the RPG was based, and possilby others were in the same situation. Hard to get fired up over something like that. That was certainly part of it. We didn't explain the themes and project nearly well enough. Last week Steve and I were in the RPGNet chat and by the time we were done discussing it a number of people were REALLY excited about it. That told us we need to do a better job next time around describing the game itself. But there was also a HUGE amount of burnout and general KS caution going on. |
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Deleted
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Post by Deleted on Nov 28, 2015 16:33:57 GMT -6
One thing I DEFINITELY plan to do is talk how the troop types are so strongly influenced by the kind of figures Elastolin produced. "Turk Archers," anyone?
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18 Spears
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Post by 18 Spears on Dec 7, 2015 13:51:36 GMT -6
How exact a duplicate are you talking about? Because my intent is to duplicate CHAINMAIL system wise exactly, rewrite the descriptions a tiny bit, reorganize, and post it as a PDF somewhere for free. I don't want to be doing essentially the same thing. Also, back in CHAINMAIL's day, a lot of miniatures wargames were that size or smaller. And there was a plethora of homebrew systems for every historical period. I would like to see you go forward with this Mike. Please continue. I'll prepay for a copy as a show of faith that I'll support this project. |
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Post by keith418 on Dec 8, 2015 12:39:18 GMT -6
I would prepay for one too.
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Post by tdenmark on Dec 11, 2015 5:33:57 GMT -6
I've started playing around with a new set of "clone" rules inspired by Chainmail. This is a terrific idea. I really like your Spellcraft & Swordplay rules. I've been working on a similar project ever since I did a "Chainmail Reformat" project a while back odd74.proboards.com/thread/10407/reformatting-chainmailBest of luck and I'm looking forward to seeing what you come up with. |
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Post by welleran on Dec 14, 2015 11:33:28 GMT -6
I'd be happy to playtest anyone's cloned version of Chainmail!
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Post by thegreyelf on Dec 15, 2015 17:01:28 GMT -6
I had a deadline to work on for Troll Lord, so I had to put this on hold a couple weeks. I'm now between projects so I'm going to bang a bit more of it out. As it stands I think the big challenge is simply going to be the re-organization and presentation. The rules are pretty easy.
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Post by Scott Anderson on Dec 25, 2015 22:08:23 GMT -6
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Post by thegreyelf on Dec 31, 2015 10:48:16 GMT -6
Sorry for the delay, folks. Busy holidays. I'm still banging away at this, but it's coming along really well. I'm quite pleased. As with every legal retroclone I've had to make certain minor changes to avoid infringement--mostly so far, I rounded movement rates off to the nearest multiple of 5 and made a couple logical adjustments.
I'm just digging into the actual combat section now, but it's really coming along. Looking forward to making it available. I'm not sure if it'll be a freebie or what--I may have an actual publisher interested.
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Post by thegreyelf on Dec 31, 2015 12:48:36 GMT -6
Taking a lunch break. I'm up through morale with the whole basic rules laid out. Next I've got to fill in gaps, clarify some things, add in advanced rules like first strike and get the fantasy section (magic and creatures) done and the mass combat system will be complete. After that it's a factor of breaking that down into the skirmish rules, which largely I've already done in S&S so that won't be much of an effort.
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Post by thegreyelf on Jan 28, 2016 16:34:24 GMT -6
Still trucking along on this, folks. Looking like it's going to be released under the Elf Lair Games moniker as the O.R.C.S. official miniatures combat system.
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18 Spears
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Post by 18 Spears on Jan 28, 2016 18:14:55 GMT -6
Still trucking along on this, folks. Looking like it's going to be released under the Elf Lair Games moniker as the O.R.C.S. official miniatures combat system. great name keep us post! |
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Post by thegreyelf on Jan 29, 2016 7:14:40 GMT -6
Still trucking along on this, folks. Looking like it's going to be released under the Elf Lair Games moniker as the O.R.C.S. official miniatures combat system. great name keep us post! That's not the name of the miniatures rules set. O.R.C.S. is the name of my house system. It stands for "Oldschool Roleplaying Core System." Elf Lair Games products are "Powered by O.R.C.S." |
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18 Spears
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Post by 18 Spears on Jan 31, 2016 22:00:40 GMT -6
That's not the name of the miniatures rules set. O.R.C.S. is the name of my house system. It stands for "Oldschool Roleplaying Core System." Elf Lair Games products are "Powered by O.R.C.S." I'm sorry. I meant no harm and best of lukc with your game. l8r |
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Post by thegreyelf on Feb 2, 2016 16:39:31 GMT -6
I'm sorry. I meant no harm and best of lukc with your game. l8r Oh, no harm done at all. Sorry if I came off as angry or snippish in any way. Wasn't my intent! |
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Post by krusader74 on Mar 27, 2016 10:02:22 GMT -6
This weekend I started writing a CM retro-clone that also tries to be a FKR. I just finished the very first draft. It's tentatively called "Goliath--Guidelines for War Games." The PDF is on dropbox. The Markdown-formatted plain text is in my pastebin. It's intentionally short--only 7 pages. My eventual goal is to fit it on a few index cards, because EGG once said: "Many a set of old time wargames rules were written on a few index cards" (see the FKR thread for the source). If anyone wishes to contribute, let me know. Any help is appreciated! |
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