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Post by doc on Jul 4, 2008 15:57:37 GMT -6
Notes on WANDERER.
Well, I put together a game of Wanderer based on the world of Aldreth (a fan-made fantasy supplement for Traveller) and Fin's edit of Aldreth (I suppose that you could call it FinAldreth). My group and I played for about four hours and enjoyed the game quite a bit.
Here are a few notes based on the session:
Age was a big factor here because most races are far more long-lived than humans, but none of their age ranges were actually included in the supplement. So we ended up with some races that were far older than humans, thus having more "terms of enlistment" while suffering little penalties for age. I'm not sure how I feel about this yet. It didn't really hamper the session we played, but I can certainly see the potential for abuse by twinks. We had a half-dwarf who, while being in his 60's, was considered to be in his prime. Although he had more skills, he really wasn't an overpowering character in terms of combat or overall playability.
We played with the classes set forth in the FinAldreth supplement that were created to mirror classes from Traveller. I think that if we play again I will be using my own classes based on traditional sword & sorcery rolls. The characters were an ancient magician kept youthful by dark magics and his retinue of grogs (err.... I mean servants). Baron Orlock was the Magician class. Even though he had what would be considered a mere handful of spells by D&D standards, many of them were downright deadly. As in "Game over, man!" Milos the Blade was an indentured slave in the service of the Baron. He was a Soldier class character and the most like a standard S&S hero. The swordswoman Ember was also a Soldier class character. Our half-dwarf (our only non-human) was a Hunter class character and named, rather descriptively, "Archer." Finally, Tug was the Baron's bodyguard. He was an Athlete class character. Young and dumb, but with very good brawling skills.
I need to say that the magic system of FinAldreth, while feeling more Vancian in flavor than typically S&S, is kinda nifty. Casting a spell is never a sure thing, but there are a whole slew of actions a magician can take to modify his chances of success, including dressing in proper eccentric magician style. Unlike many other fantasy games, the risk of spellcasting is that a failed spell roll can cause some Very Bad Things to happen to the character. So even though a magician can technically blast away all day with spells without ever having to worry about using up their magic, most sane casters conserve their power and cast only when absolutely neccessary. Indeed, our only party fatality of the evening came about when Baron Orlock attempted to cast a spell that was to have squashed an ogre like a bug (instant death), only to fail his roll and have the spell backlash onto him instead!
Anybody have any specific questions?
Doc
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Post by pjork on Jul 4, 2008 19:09:43 GMT -6
I've got Aldreth, but Fin's edit has escaped my notice. Where can I find FinAldreth?
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Post by Finarvyn on Jul 5, 2008 14:42:32 GMT -6
Fin's edit has escaped my notice. Where can I find FinAldreth? That's because it's not hosted anywhere yet. (I don't have a place to host files and it's not quite finished anyway.) I shared with Doc because he seemed to have an interest in the project. I have a racial "fix" but it's not included yet. Give me a day or so to get organized and I'll put that part into the rules as well.  |
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Post by Finarvyn on Jul 5, 2008 14:59:54 GMT -6
BY THE WAY ... the racial fix I mentioned earliler is part of Sieg's system which I think I linked to earlier.
In many ways I like his better than the Aldreth system since it has classes more similar to D&D. I'd be interested to see if anyone has any thoughts on one versus the other. I'm thinking of scrapping the Aldreth classes and replacing them with Sieg's.
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Post by Zulgyan on Jul 6, 2008 17:34:42 GMT -6
I would buy this in a heartbeat  |
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Thorulfr
Level 5 Thaumaturgist
Posts: 264
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Post by Thorulfr on Jul 7, 2008 20:35:29 GMT -6
I keep hopping back and forth through the sections as time and inspiration hit. For the moment, I have been researching a list of trade goods known from ancient times. I might break this up into several lists based on tech level, though there would be a lot of overlap.
Salt
Flint/Obsidian
Copper
Tin
Bronze
Iron
Ocher
Tanned leather
Furs
Timber (remember the Ceders of Lebanon?)
Rare woods
Fruit/foodstuffs
Medicinal herbs
Spices
Gemstones
Semi-precious stones (turquoise, lapis lazuli, cinnabar, amber, ...)
Wine
Oil (olive)
Lead
Arsenic (used in glass making)
Grain
Artworks
Silver
Gold
Bronze/iron weapons
Armor
Textiles (as fibers, woven cloth, dyed/fulled cloth...)
Soapstone
Perfume
Cosmetics
Resins (frankincense, myrrh, acacia, storax)
Incense
Tortoise shell
Mother-of-pearl
Dyestuffs (tyrian purple, cochineal)
Ceramics
Glass
Coffee (according to Wiki, discovered in the 9th century)
Tea (iffy - didn't make it to Europe in quantity until the 'Enlightenment')
Bitumen
Glass beads
Tools (stone, bronze, iron...)
Slaves
Other random woolgathering:
- Perhaps each 'hex' has two numbers rolled: Fertility (how rich the acricultural potential is), and Mineral Wealth. The former might have a bearing on the Population roll; the latter for trade speculation or PC prospecting (Of course, only the Referee would know the results of the rolls.)
- The Tech Level roll should probably be set by the referee, with minor variations from settlement to settlement. One didn't usually have one city at the height of the middle ages, while the next one down the road is still in the paleolithic. It is easier to explain in Traveller, but makes less sense here - the referee would need to do so much handwaving that air conditioning the gameroom would become unnecessary.
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Post by pjork on Jul 7, 2008 21:39:03 GMT -6
- The Tech Level roll should probably be set by the referee, with minor variations from settlement to settlement. One didn't usually have one city at the height of the middle ages, while the next one down the road is still in the paleolithic. It is easier to explain in Traveller, but makes less sense here - the referee would need to do so much handwaving that air conditioning the gameroom would become unnecessary.  |
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Thorulfr
Level 5 Thaumaturgist
Posts: 264
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Post by Thorulfr on Jul 8, 2008 16:33:44 GMT -6
- The Tech Level roll should probably be set by the referee, with minor variations from settlement to settlement. One didn't usually have one city at the height of the middle ages, while the next one down the road is still in the paleolithic. It is easier to explain in Traveller, but makes less sense here - the referee would need to do so much handwaving that air conditioning the gameroom would become unnecessary. OK, I see some referees are in FAVOR of manual gameroom airconditioning... |
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Thorulfr
Level 5 Thaumaturgist
Posts: 264
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Post by Thorulfr on Jul 8, 2008 16:48:50 GMT -6
Since any 'trade and commerce' rules will require info for caravans, I did a bit of net-research on the subject of camels as pack animals. From www.arab.net/camels/: "A camel can carry as much as 450kg/990lbs, but a usual and more comfortable cargo weight is 150kgs/330lbs. It is usual for a camel to work as a beast of burden for only six to eight months of the year; the remainder of the time it needs to rest and recuperate." "The normal life span of a camel is 40 years, although a working camel retires from active duty at 25." "Normal 'amble speed' for a walking camel is 5kph/3mph; a working camel will typically cover 40km/25 miles a day. Racing camels can reach 20kph/12mph at the gallop." "A camel can go 5-7 days with little or no food and water, and can lose a quarter of its body weight without impairing its normal functions. These days, camels rely on man for their preferred food of dates, grass and grains such as wheat and oats, but a working camel travelling across an area where food is scarce can easily survive on thorny scrub or whatever it can find - bones, seeds, dried leaves, or even its owner's tent!" "Camels need very little water if their regular diet contains good, moisture-rich pasture. Although camels can withstand severe dehydration, a large animal can drink as much as 100 litres/21 gallons in ten minutes. Such an amount would kill another mammal, but the camel's unique metabolism enables the animal to store the water in its bloodstream." "A fully-grown camel can weigh up to 700kg/1542lbs." This information seems to be mirrored elsewhere on the net, probably a commonf source somewhere. On the off chance that someone might want to use llamas: "Llamas are used as pack animals and can carry loads of up to 30 kg for 15 to 20 kilometres a day." (from www.fao.org/docrep/t0690e/t0690e09.htm) I'll need to do some more checking on horses and mules, but it looks like a pack weight of 160-200 pounds as a vague figure. |
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Post by ffilz on Jul 8, 2008 23:57:30 GMT -6
Somewhere I have some extensive notes on pack animals. Donkeys are actually better for "running dry" than camels according to the research I did (partly because they can be almost completely dehydrated and then tank up whereas many animals have to slowly re-hydrate if they get severely dehydrated - I won't go into the slightly disgusting bit about donkey re-hydration I learned from this research).
Frank
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Post by dwayanu on Jul 9, 2008 2:08:16 GMT -6
Heh -- one of my girlfriends worked summers as a muleskinner (but, natch, I remember no pertinent lore so well as the sparkle of her eyes and the lilt of her laughter) ...
Somewhere, I may still have at hand some notes on horses; as I recall, they are rather contra D&D Vol. 3. Unfortunately, I no longer have the fine consideration of cavalry penned by a Mr. Nolan.
"They call me Mister Unhelpful, that's how I got my fame ..."
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Thorulfr
Level 5 Thaumaturgist
Posts: 264
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Post by Thorulfr on Jul 9, 2008 15:39:37 GMT -6
As for waterborne shipping, I just dug out my copy old Judges Guild's "Sea Steeds and Wave Riders" - plenty of data on different ship types, speeds, and (especially) cargo capacities - and it looks pretty easily convertable. I'll have to try to spot-check the numbers against other sources, but I know I already have one of the books listed in the bibliography (somewhere in storage <grumblemuttergripe>...)
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Thorulfr
Level 5 Thaumaturgist
Posts: 264
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Post by Thorulfr on Jul 16, 2008 11:25:45 GMT -6
Haven't done much more recently - I've been working 16-hour days, so I'm a little buried; probably will be for the next couple of weeks, too.  |
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Thorulfr
Level 5 Thaumaturgist
Posts: 264
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Post by Thorulfr on Jul 29, 2008 11:56:36 GMT -6
Still doing the 16-hour cr@p, but I've had a little time while doing installs to get a bit of thinking in...
In Traveller, there are 6 'Trade Classifications': Agricultural, Non-Agricultural, Industrial, Non-Industrial, Rich, and Poor.
Rich and Poor will transfer pretty cleanly, but the others require a bit of thought.
Ag/Non-Ag: In a way, this distinction is a bit silly, since almost by definition, all pre-industrial settlements are going to be 'agricultural'. I think the main question is whether or not the immediately surrounding territory is capable of supporting the population: do they have a surplus of food to trade, or do they have a deficit, making them a receptive market?
Rome had a population of between 800,000 and a million (depending on the source and the period in question), but they had to import food in huge quantities to sustain them all.
If each hex is rated for the 'fertility' (is there a better term?), then that score could be compared to the population (and the tech level? - once you have the plow and the horse collar, your productivity goes up) My copy of 'Cities' is around somewhere, and it has a figure for the number of people that could be fed per acre/square mile/ 5 mile hex. those figures can be folded into a comparison of the 'fertility' and the 'population' and come up with a trade classification. Perhaps the letter 'A', followed by one or two '+' or '-' (i.e. A++ - huge surplus, A+ - surplus, A- -deficit, A-- -they buy grain by the barge-load)
"Industrial" is a bit harder. What sort of 'business centers' are there?
You have your big 'trade centers' - cities or ports along major trade routes (Venice, Petra)
You have 'craft centers' - this could be guild-controled, but the manufacturing is done in smaller, scattered shops. Weaving and lace-making in Ireland and Scotland used to be done that way.
You also have things that are more akin to what we understand as 'heavy industry': mining/refining, shipbuilding at the later tech levels, the glass industry in Venice. These are things that require a lot of specialized infrastructure and a large group of people with different skills and specialties, all working together.
Perhaps, then, 'Industrial' could mean that the local economy was reliant on some heavy manufacturing (Venice for glass beads; Joachimsthaler for silver mining), and 'Non-Industrial' means they are known as a craft center (Florence for silk weaving; Dublin for lace...)
Of course, the main problem is that cities are rarely so specialized - how would one rate Rome or London, which had everything under the sun?
I guess the 'Starport' code could be used to measure the size and importance of the place as a trade center (Rome, Alexandria, Venice would be 'A'. Ubar or Petra, despite being in the middle of nowhere, might rate a 'C' or even 'B'... Did you know that they are STILL bringing salt in to Timbuktu by camel?)
The problem with conversion is that in Traveller, you roll the presence of a star, roll the size of the starport, and then roll for the trade routes based on port size and distance. In our fantasy planet, trade routes, at least the ones with the big trade centers, need to be part of a larger network: I doubt that Venice and Alexandria would have been as big as they were if they had only been trading with each other - they were hubs in a network that stretched from Indonesia to Iceland. Cities grew because they were where trade routes crossed - or they were one a ford or river crossing and people tended to stop there for the night, or they had a good harbor, or... It would take a lot of imagination and work on the referee's part to make coherent sense of his map...but then again, that was always part of the fun with Traveller. ("They've got an A starport, a population of '3', and a Tech level of '5' ...hmmmmm.....")
Oh yeah: Rich and Poor - crossreference the Fertility and Mineral wealth scores with the population... You need high resources, coupled with enough population to take advantage of it...but not too much. Not too hard to convert, I should think.
OK, coffee break's over, back on my head.
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Post by apparition13 on Jul 29, 2008 22:21:33 GMT -6
Still doing the 16-hour cr@p, but I've had a little time while doing installs to get a bit of thinking in... In Traveller, there are 6 'Trade Classifications': Agricultural, Non-Agricultural, Industrial, Non-Industrial, Rich, and Poor. Rich and Poor will transfer pretty cleanly, but the others require a bit of thought. Ag/Non-Ag: In a way, this distinction is a bit silly, since almost by definition, all pre-industrial settlements are going to be 'agricultural'.... Re: agricultural/non-agricultural: why not simply go with agricultural and non? Meaning, hunter-gatherers, nomads and the like. They usually had something to trade with settled peoples. By way of example, flint was traded extensively in pre-agricultural times. |
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jjarvis
Level 5 Thaumaturgist
Posts: 278
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Post by jjarvis on Jul 30, 2008 16:15:35 GMT -6
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Thorulfr
Level 5 Thaumaturgist
Posts: 264
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Post by Thorulfr on Jul 30, 2008 17:47:22 GMT -6
Still doing the 16-hour cr@p, but I've had a little time while doing installs to get a bit of thinking in... In Traveller, there are 6 'Trade Classifications': Agricultural, Non-Agricultural, Industrial, Non-Industrial, Rich, and Poor. Ag/Non-Ag: In a way, this distinction is a bit silly, since almost by definition, all pre-industrial settlements are going to be 'agricultural'.... Re: agricultural/non-agricultural: why not simply go with agricultural and non? Meaning, hunter-gatherers, nomads and the like. They usually had something to trade with settled peoples. By way of example, flint was traded extensively in pre-agricultural times. That is an interesting thought; I have been pondering how to incorporate hunter-gatherer and pastoral economies (can you tell my degree was in anthropology?), but the focus of the Ag/Non-Ag trade classifications is their effect upon the purchase and sale price of foodstuffs. While pastoral tribes do usually trade with their agriculturalist neighbors for grain and produce, the abundance/scarcity of food in a developed city is an important indicator - and hunter-gatherer/pastoralist vs. settled agriculturalist could be accounted for in the Tech Level. (Though that IS an important factor - the Hudson Bay Company made a killing by trading [then] high-tech goodies like knives and muskets to hunter-gatherers in exchange for furs.) |
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Post by creativehum on Jun 22, 2017 21:39:36 GMT -6
Just checking in... I haven't posted since April (but have been reading daily and keeping up with the group). I've played OD&D with my son several times, but caught the "Traveller Fever" after buying the PDF's of the first 3 Little Black Books... Hi Wothbora, It's been a decade and I wanted to know if the "Traveller Fever" sustained itself, how you used the game, and what you think of it now. I really loved reading your posts about it. |
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LouGoncey
Level 4 Theurgist
"Lather. Rinse. Repeat. That's my philosophy."
Posts: 108
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Post by LouGoncey on Nov 22, 2017 16:33:14 GMT -6
I wish I was familiar enough with CT or the new Mongoose Traveller to put together a fantasy version. Maybe if someone gives it a shot they would post their stuff here for us to play with. Hmmm. Maybe if I get bored after my current project is finished.... :-) Just an FYI, but somebody already made a fantasy version of Mongoose Traveller -- it is called Worlds Apart. it is available on DrivethruRPG... |
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Post by Finarvyn on Nov 22, 2017 20:27:11 GMT -6
I wish I was familiar enough with CT or the new Mongoose Traveller to put together a fantasy version. Maybe if someone gives it a shot they would post their stuff here for us to play with. Hmmm. Maybe if I get bored after my current project is finished.... :-) Just an FYI, but somebody already made a fantasy version of Mongoose Traveller -- it is called Worlds Apart. it is available on DrivethruRPG... Link: drivethrurpg.com/product/105342/Worlds-ApartI see that the PDF is usually $5 and the print copy $20. Not a bad price for either.  |
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