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Post by dwayanu on Jun 14, 2008 12:46:10 GMT -6
I have the good fortune this coming weekend to spend some time with my (5-6 y.o.) nephew, who is coming out to California from Texas. This shall also be my first meeting with (ca. 2 yrs. younger) niece, whose adoring "shadowing" of big brother is not always appreciated by him.
Perhaps naturally, I hope that he'll find D&D intriguing and we'll get in a game. I think B1 would be perfect, and I can see parting with my one copy of Mentzer Basic so his Dad can cater to any sustained interest. I would prefer that to letting WotC initiate him.
However, I was at least 10 y.o. when I was introduced and I have never run a game for one so young. Not being a parent myself, I lack that perspective on child development.
Ike is recognized as notably bright even beyond his (naturally biased) kin, and he's making up his own game (about railroad trains, IIRC; those and dinosaurs being pretty much his cynosures).
It may have been "jumping the gun," but his parents have already read to him The Hobbit.
Any advice from those wiser in the ways of children?
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Post by kesher on Jun 14, 2008 13:18:52 GMT -6
I have lots and lots of thoughts on this, but only a moment to post right now.
So, off the top of my head:
1. Don't say no things that excite him, no matter what the rules might dictate.
2. Downplay mechanics and up-play (is that a word?) choices, decisions, consequences.
3. He will almost certainly come up with cool ideas or connections that never would've entered your adult-hardened brain; run with them.
4. Let him find and use a magic item.
5. Don't fudge the dice. Make it no big deal if his character bites it; just roll up a new one and let him try again (and maybe find his previous self and reclaim the magic item from #4.)
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Post by makofan on Jun 14, 2008 13:19:34 GMT -6
Focus on ideas and imagination, not mechanics
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Post by dwayanu on Jun 14, 2008 13:57:38 GMT -6
Thank you!
Kesher, I hope you'll find time in the next few days to post more of your thoughts.
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edsan
Level 5 Thaumaturgist
MUTANT LORD
Posts: 309
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Post by edsan on Jun 14, 2008 15:33:27 GMT -6
So, off the top of my head: 1. Don't say no things that excite him, no matter what the rules might dictate. 2. Downplay mechanics and up-play (is that a word?) choices, decisions, consequences. 3. He will almost certainly come up with cool ideas (...); run with them. 4. Let him find and use a magic item. 5. Don't fudge the dice. Make it no big deal if his character bites it; just roll up a new one and let him try again (and maybe find his previous self and reclaim the magic item from #4.) You know, this is also pretty good advice when running a game for an adult. Or a teenager, or even a senior citizen. Why should only kids have all the fun? Grown ups like to be coddled by the GM too.
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busman
Level 6 Magician
Playing OD&D, once again. Since 2008!
Posts: 448
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Post by busman on Jun 14, 2008 16:48:23 GMT -6
I started pretty young (8 ish) back in the day, I had an older brother who was into it.
At 5-6, he's probably going to get frustrated with things he doesn't understand very well. If he looks frustrated, don't press it.
Keep the rules light, keep it about imagination.
Remember, at this point, his brain is about 1000x more reactive and creative than your old calcified brain. As Edsan said, run with his wacky ideas. Cater to his imagination.
He may not be ready for it at all. Be prepared for that. You can try other D&D like things to get him started: Dungeon! boardgame. Let him flip through you AD&D MM or something.
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Post by grodog on Jun 15, 2008 0:36:55 GMT -6
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Post by dwayanu on Jun 15, 2008 7:01:39 GMT -6
Thanks!
The Delvers' Dungeon accounts have some observations in common that I'll keep in mind.
One: Children really like to roll dice!
It looks as if the age is not necessarily too young -- but of course even interest is an individual matter.
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busman
Level 6 Magician
Playing OD&D, once again. Since 2008!
Posts: 448
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Post by busman on Jun 15, 2008 9:01:12 GMT -6
One: Children really like to roll dice! Good one! Also, Miniatures are very interesting as well, if you have them.
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Post by tavis on Jun 15, 2008 19:33:43 GMT -6
My son is 6, and has been doing various kinds of imaginative play with me for years. On the freeform end are "Green Lantern stories" where he describes the actions of his favorite superhero, his time-travelling spaceship the X10d10, and a vastly expanded GL Corps. On the systematic end are games like HeroScape, Faery's Tale, and D&D, which he's interested in because I am, but asks for less often because it's more constrained. In a Green Lantern story, he can do anything and never fails; in a D&D game, the dice and the rules mean that's not true.
Another parent of boys six and eight has been talking with me about RPGs, which he never played but thinks would be a good match for his kids' interests, and I told him the best way to learn is to play. The kids agreed that they would rather be knights and wizards than fairies and sprites, so we agreed on OD&D over Faery's Tale, and will schedule a game sometime in the next few weeks.
I think the things that my son doesn't like as much about D&D - the constraints - are the things that make it work well for groups. He has a friend who likes to play "Green Lantern stories" with us, but a lot of what happens is interrupting one another with conflicting ideas about what they're going to do next. I also see this happening in playground games that I'm not part of - this year the boys have been spending much of their play time making up games, deciding who is on who's team, and arguing about rules. For a bigger group, having a system of taking turns, tracking positions with miniatures, and moving at a slower pace is a necessity. I think my son's imagination has gotten plenty of juice from more freeform stuff, and that he's now ready to master the socialization parts of D&D - working with others, turning individual ideas into a group consensus, etc.
Here are some things I'm thinking about:
- I'm torn between running the Zenopus's Tower sample dungeon out of the Homes Basic Set, because it's chock-full of essential D&D goodness like pirates, goblins, giant spiders, skeletons, and maidens to be rescued, or creating my own that can be laid out entirely using the smattering of Dwarven Forge tiles I have. The latter has the advantage of being more visually cool. It has the disadvantage that my son likes to play with it (esp. the traps pieces) like a Lego set, and the other kids may get the idea that D&D has to have these "toy" pieces which they won't if they start playing at home. I definitely will use the WotC pre-painted minis, so I'm already moving in the toy direction somewhat.
- I've been thinking about how to play up the awesome descriptions of combat (which I don't doubt is going to be a lot of what they'll want to do) while keeping the gore to a minimum. Skeletons are great for this. I also had the idea that goblins are made of garbage, and when they're killed they break apart again into heaps of trash. (I really liked the mummy-fighting scenes in the first Brendon Frazier Mummy move, as they were chock-full of the kind of catching-your-own-severed-head visual gags I like to describe in fight scenes).
- I might set up our mini-trampoline next to the game table so that kids can get some energy out when it's not their turn, or use it as the spotlight if they want to act out their character's action. The six-year-olds are still impulsive enough that I want to try to plan for/control that aspect of things.
The advice about finding a magic item is great - I think I'll make sure that they find enough for each character to get one, rather than risk arguments about who gets the goodie.
I think it's going to help to have an adult at the table as a player, so that he can help model good behavior. His lack of RPG experience should keep it from being dull for him, I hope.
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Post by tavis on Jun 15, 2008 19:41:54 GMT -6
I can see parting with my one copy of Mentzer Basic so his Dad can cater to any sustained interest. This is a good idea. I'd been planning to use the white box I inherited from my ex-in-laws, but a) I'd have a hard time keeping my composure if a booklet got ripped and b) I couldn't pass on another copy to the other family, and they might feel it wasn't the same thing if they then started playing with a different set. I cut my teeth on Holmes, so that'd be my preference, but I reckon it might be harder to find. How easy are the different boxed sets to find used? What's the average price differential between them?
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Post by greyharp on Jun 15, 2008 21:37:32 GMT -6
I'd been planning to use the white box I inherited from my ex-in-laws, but a) I'd have a hard time keeping my composure if a booklet got ripped and b) I couldn't pass on another copy to the other family, and they might feel it wasn't the same thing if they then started playing with a different set. I cut my teeth on Holmes, so that'd be my preference, but I reckon it might be harder to find. How easy are the different boxed sets to find used? What's the average price differential between them? Sounds like you might be better off with one of the retro-clones. Then you wouldn't have to worry about original books getting damaged.
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Post by dwayanu on Jun 15, 2008 22:11:32 GMT -6
I don't know offhand about prices. I once had two copies of Holmes, but lost them both and now make do with a PDF. I think Mentzer is also available in that medium, but not Moldvay.
I found Holmes quite enlightening back in the day. Mentzer's Basic drove me batty as a reference work, perhaps because I was so very accustomed to a different format; unlike Holmes, it has an index.
From what I've read, Mentzer's work serves admirably in a pedagogical mode. It uses brief solitaire scenarios to teach basic rules (and impart some other lessons, such as the likelihood of character death and the value of running away). With a foundation in Moldvay's text, the prose is plain and clear.
My first inclination is to use the little brown books for my DMing (if I get to do any), to the extent that I refer to books. I'll consider using Mentzer, although I don't expect to reveal to players much of what goes on behind the screen. If Ike notes differences, that's okay; the game is meant to be modified as the referee sees fit. Call it another lesson in "how to play!"
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busman
Level 6 Magician
Playing OD&D, once again. Since 2008!
Posts: 448
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Post by busman on Jun 16, 2008 13:54:06 GMT -6
I can see parting with my one copy of Mentzer Basic so his Dad can cater to any sustained interest. This is a good idea. I'd been planning to use the white box I inherited from my ex-in-laws, but a) I'd have a hard time keeping my composure if a booklet got ripped and b) I couldn't pass on another copy to the other family, and they might feel it wasn't the same thing if they then started playing with a different set. Buy the PDF from RPGNow.com for 5.99. Print up your own copies for use, then you don't have to worry about it getting ripped.
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Post by dwayanu on Jun 21, 2008 22:22:38 GMT -6
Well, the family gathering (actually earlier in the week) was both delightful and tiring. D&D never came up, as there was too much else to do. I gave Mentzer Basic and Module B1 to my sister, in case my nephew (almost 7, actually -- time flies!) might find it interesting.
My toddler niece certainly found the dice intriguing.
It was my first visit to the Monterey Bay Aquarium, where I saw some pretty fantastic real-life creatures. "Sea dragons" were among the oddest in appearance.
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scogle
Level 3 Conjurer
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Post by scogle on Jun 22, 2008 0:57:24 GMT -6
I'm running an OD&D campaign for my 9-year-old brother (and 12-and-15-year-old sisters for that matter) atm, and they love it. The most important thing is to keep it as open-ended as possible. I mean that goes for any campaign but the wee ones seem to really appreciate. So far it's going great, we're all having tons of fun; in fact I think it's the first time I've ever done something fun with all three of them.
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Stonegiant
Level 5 Thaumaturgist
100% in Liar
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Post by Stonegiant on Jun 22, 2008 2:28:00 GMT -6
I have found that with kids under 10 that the action level has to be maintained at a slightly higher pace than in games with older kids and that the in between times (leave the dungeon and head up to the village, etc.) didn't mean much to the kids that I was playing with and that to them it was a bookkeeping break between bouts of action (I eat, I sleep, I buy more rations, and get the suspected magic items identified. I then head back to the dungeon).
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Deleted
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Post by Deleted on Jun 23, 2008 13:02:09 GMT -6
Hi all,
I'm brand spanking new to the boards here but the running a game for children post caught my eye...
I've been running a C&C game for my daughters (Then 9 & 6. Now 10 & 7) since Christmas and have a few observations that you might be interested in hearing. All of these are personal observations that are directly related to my daughter's personalities... So they might, or might not, be worth the imaginary paper they're written on. ;-)
1. Strangely, my daughters don't do well with minis. It distracts them and the game flows slower. 2. They LOVE the interaction between the PCs and NPCs. Even more than battling monsters actually. 3. Treasure, while cool, isn't usually much of a motivator. They're into the romantic elements.. e.g. Rescuing a farmer's son from the goblin marauders. Ridding the grazing meadow of the spider incursion, etc. 4. They're pretty emotionally involved in their characters. (For instance, at times of high intensity, my youngest will scurry under the table w/ her dice in hand... "Let me know when it's safe to come out!") So I don't have the heart to treat their characters as a rotating resource. 5. My youngest also has the tendency to "run away" when things get a little tight... much to the chagrin of her older sister. So I don't ever put them in a situation where escape is not an option. 6. My eldest sometimes likes to "cheat" and face her dice after she's rolled.. Much to my chagrin. But I've made it a point to push the honesty angle and make sure that she knows that her role playing has MUCH more impact than the dice...although it's happened in the past that a poor roll will certainly influence the outcome.
Now, I don't know if this is all a result of the fact that they're girls...and therefore interested in different things than boys. I've got two nephews who are almost exactly 6 mos. older each.... I'd love the chance to try out my theories. ;-)
Anyway, I've found that they're much more interested in story, setting and character than in the nitty gritty fight scenes and delving for treasure. Don't get me wrong, they love that too... but not nearly as much as other aspects of the game.
Oh, and unless they're in a very special mood, I don't often run a game for more than 3 hours at a stretch...and often no longer than 2 hours.
Have fun. It's such a special feeling, vicariously reliving those things that made the game so magical when we were young.
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