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Post by waysoftheearth on Jun 10, 2014 5:59:43 GMT -6
According to Playing at the World (p477) Warriors of Mars was developed by TSR at the request of a miniatures manufacturer (then Hinchliffe/Minifigs).
If anyone here knows, I would be very interested to learn when development of MoW began--especially if it was prior to the publication of Dungeons & Dragons (which I suspect it must have been) and if so, how much so?
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Deleted
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Post by Deleted on Jun 10, 2014 13:18:17 GMT -6
I think the Wikipedia entry is wrong; I think WoM was published in 1975, not 1974, but I sold my copy years ago.
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Post by cadriel on Jun 10, 2014 14:43:40 GMT -6
Playing at the World lists it as having been released at GenCon VII, which was definitely the 1974 con.
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Deleted
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Post by Deleted on Jun 10, 2014 15:41:25 GMT -6
Hmm, okay. I have no idea when it began development, but I'd say at a rough guess about a year before publication. Maybe look in PATW under DGUTS and a couple of other rules sets and see how long it took to go from "first draft" to "publication".
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Post by waysoftheearth on Jun 10, 2014 17:06:57 GMT -6
I have a copy in which I see the "Forward" is dated 1 July 1974, so presumably it was printed quite shortly after that. Assuming Gronan's estimate of a year is about right, that would put the start of development around mid '73.
On the other hand, Increment over on the acaeum forums pointed out that WoM is not mentioned in the product catalog at the back of OD&D, while other projects that were in development prior to OD&D are. Which would imply that WoM was not begun in earnest until after OD&D was in print, which would put the start of development sometime in early '74.
edit: If this is correct it must have been a fantastically productive period at TSR, with OD&D in print Jan '74, then WoM begun and in print by Jul '74, and then Greyhawk in print only six months later.
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Post by waysoftheearth on Jun 11, 2014 3:27:52 GMT -6
I checked that against the back of some OD&D sets, and found that the last page of the 1st print M&M includes a product listing for "Space Wargame Rules". It is not made clear what these are, but it could be what would later become "Warriors of Mars", or "StarProbe" (although the latter was acquired from a 3rd party).
I don't have access to a 2nd print. If anyone here does, it would be good to know what that says.
The 3rd print and 4th prints list: "WARRIORS OF MARS -- The Warfare of Barsoom in Miniature $5.00"
By the 5th print it has been deleted.
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Post by scottenkainen on Jun 11, 2014 16:16:09 GMT -6
Interesting! What if...Warriors of Mars was completed so fast by taking the draft of Underworld and Wilderness Adventures and splitting it in half? That could explain why elements of Warriors of Mars mesh well with OD&D, as well as the presence of Barsoom monsters in Underworld...
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Deleted
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Post by Deleted on Jun 11, 2014 16:40:18 GMT -6
Nope, totally different game system.
I wasn't paying attention to that particular thing, but if I had to guess, I'd guess Brian worked on it a while before showing it to Gary.
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Post by waysoftheearth on Jun 11, 2014 17:36:11 GMT -6
Nope, totally different game system. @gronanofsimmerya do you mean that the "Space Wargame Rules" hinted at in OD&D were neither Warriors of Mars nor Star Probe? They were something else entirely?
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Deleted
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Post by Deleted on Jun 11, 2014 19:04:00 GMT -6
No, sorry, I meant that WoM was not material edited out of "Underworld and Wilderness Adventures."
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Post by waysoftheearth on Jun 11, 2014 19:26:11 GMT -6
Understood, thanks for the clarification.
Increment over on the acaeum forums seems pretty sure that the "Space Wargame Rules" hinted at in the 1st print of OD&D were Star Probe.
He's probably right, but it would be great to know for certain.
The curious thing about this is the long period between announcing that "Space Wargame Rules" were coming (that catalog item must have been written in late '73 or early Jan '74), and TSR actually publishing Star Probe (September '75). Would it have taken almost two years to publish a pre-existing game?
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Deleted
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Post by Deleted on Jun 11, 2014 22:37:03 GMT -6
I think "Star Probe" was indeed the game. I playedtested a version of it in Minneapolis in late 1973. I don't know about its publishing history.
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jacar
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Post by jacar on Jun 12, 2014 8:52:41 GMT -6
Hmm, okay. I have no idea when it began development, but I'd say at a rough guess about a year before publication. Maybe look in PATW under DGUTS and a couple of other rules sets and see how long it took to go from "first draft" to "publication". Copyright date from the PDF located at archive.org is indeed 1974. It was not out long before the ERB estate put an end to the publication.
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