Download DD Ref Rules V3 (May 2014)

[waysoftheearth]

Ref Rules V3 is ready for action! Get the free PDFs from my fileshare here:

forum.immersiveink.com/viewtopic.php?f=15&t=113


V3 is a complete revision based on V2 and I'm confident Delving Deeper is all the better for it:

* V3 is nearer to the original sources in many subtle and not-so-subtle ways.
* More than ever DD is differentiated from other offerings by looking back to its Chainmail roots rather than looking forward to B/X or AD&D. This makes DD an ideal starting place (short of the originals) for your own D&D evolution.
* V3 must be one of the most thoroughly proof read texts in the OSR!


V3 is now officially the current stable version of the Delving Deeper rules.


Enjoy!

[machpants]

DLing and going to get them printed too. Don't worry I'll pick up the hardback when it is available.

Thanks!

EDIT: Any reaon the Vol 1 and 2 PDFs are 5.5x8.5 inch, not 6x9 inch like Vol 3?

[waysoftheearth]

May 15, 2014 4:32:38 GMT -6 machpants said:

Any reaon the Vol 1 and 2 PDFs are 5.5x8.5 inch, not 6x9 inch like Vol 3?

I just went and checked the source files, and also downloaded all three PDFs from the file share and checked the document properties of each: the page size appears to be 5.5" x 8.5" in all cases.

Can you explain where you are seeing the 6"x9" measurement?

[strangebrew]

Great!

What's the difference between this and the Reliquary rules? I know that the Reliquary rules will be a hardback book (and I know I will buy it!), so are these Ref Rules from the same text base as the final Reliquary rules? Will the Reliquary rules basically be this text with art and printed, is basically what I'm wondering.

[waysoftheearth]

May 15, 2014 6:20:30 GMT -6 strangebrew said:

Will the Reliquary rules basically be this text with art and printed, is basically what I'm wondering.

Basically, yes.

Reliquary (the hardback) will be built on the V3 rules merged into a single document. It will also have some nice examples, maps, and illustrations, and--depending on space--I also want to add a summary of tables and an index.

[idrahil]

Very cool! I like the addition of Jousting and some other clarifications + new spells you've made over the past year.

[Merias]

Thank you very much for your hard work on this. I, too will be buying a hardback when it arrives.

[machpants]

May 15, 2014 5:55:16 GMT -6 waysoftheearth said:

May 15, 2014 4:32:38 GMT -6 machpants said:

Any reaon the Vol 1 and 2 PDFs are 5.5x8.5 inch, not 6x9 inch like Vol 3?

I just went and checked the source files, and also downloaded all three PDFs from the file share and checked the document properties of each: the page size appears to be 5.5" x 8.5" in all cases.

Can you explain where you are seeing the 6"x9" measurement?

It was my mistake sorry, operator error! Yes they are all the correct size, sorry for the confusion.

[waysoftheearth]

May 15, 2014 8:31:06 GMT -6 idrahil said:

I like the addition of Jousting and some other clarifications + new spells you've made over the past year.

The "new" spells are actually old ones, of course

The V3 spell lists are closer to the original than V2 but, being OGL compliant, not identical. The most notable difference is the four extra 1st level M-U spells. These illustrate some of the creative output of the early years beyond "the path most trodden" (i.e., Greyhawk). Color Spray, in particular, is a nod to Vance.

[bestialwarlust]

Awesome downloaded! two questions

I noticed a change in the numbers on the turn undead instead of the 5,7,9 progression it's 6,8,10 any reason for this?

Also the magic user spells per day table is on the page by the elf entry.

[waysoftheearth]

May 15, 2014 19:20:04 GMT -6 bestialwarlust said:

I noticed a change in the numbers on the turn undead instead of the 5,7,9 progression it's 6,8,10 any reason for this?

FWIW, the original progression is 7,9,11 (not 5, 7, 9)

Yes, the turn undead table was intentionally nudged so as not to plagiarise the original.

The target numbers in the DD table are one pip lower (making it easier to successfully turn), but the columns are by cleric HD rather than level (making it harder to successfully turn). End result is that it has a very similar effect, with 1st-2nd level clerics being slightly advantaged, but higher level clerics being slightly disadvantaged. However, you could allow a cleric to add +1 when he has X+1 HD to partly offset that disadvantage.

May 15, 2014 19:20:04 GMT -6 bestialwarlust said:

the magic user spells per day table is on the page by the elf entry.

Both the cleric and magic-user statistics comprise two tables (e.g., "Cleric Progression" and "Cleric Spells per Day"). In both cases these are aligned on two facing pages of a spread because they don't physically fit on a single page.

If you set your PDF viewer to show two facing pages at a time, and you'll see they line up neatly.

Yes, the cleric tables are around the wrong way. Laying out a booklet with lots of tables can be an infuriating jigsaw puzzle, and fitting everything "just so" can be extremely challenging. In the case of the cleric tables within the classes section, there was no better way doing it. I tried lots of alternate layouts, including splitting the "Cleric Progression" table across the two pages so that the spells per day could be to the right hand side. But none of these alternatives were as good as the way it is now.

[waysoftheearth]

I just noticed that two tables in Vol III had duplicate table numbers.

I have corrected this and updated the PDF.

[bestialwarlust]

May 15, 2014 19:48:05 GMT -6 waysoftheearth said:

May 15, 2014 19:20:04 GMT -6 bestialwarlust said:

I noticed a change in the numbers on the turn undead instead of the 5,7,9 progression it's 6,8,10 any reason for this?

FWIW, the original progression is 7,9,11 (not 5, 7, 9)

Yes, the turn undead table was intentionally nudged so as not to plagiarise the original.

The target numbers in the DD table are one pip lower (making it easier to successfully turn), but the columns are by cleric HD rather than level (making it harder to successfully turn). End result is that it has a very similar effect, with 1st-2nd level clerics being slightly advantaged, but higher level clerics being slightly disadvantaged. However, you could allow a cleric to add +1 when he has X+1 HD to partly offset that disadvantage.

May 15, 2014 19:20:04 GMT -6 bestialwarlust said:

the magic user spells per day table is on the page by the elf entry.

Both the cleric and magic-user statistics comprise two tables (e.g., "Cleric Progression" and "Cleric Spells per Day"). In both cases these are aligned on two facing pages of a spread because they don't physically fit on a single page.

If you set your PDF viewer to show two facing pages at a time, and you'll see they line up neatly.

Yes, the cleric tables are around the wrong way. Laying out a booklet with lots of tables can be an infuriating jigsaw puzzle, and fitting everything "just so" can be extremely challenging. In the case of the cleric tables within the classes section, there was no better way doing it. I tried lots of alternate layouts, including splitting the "Cleric Progression" table across the two pages so that the spells per day could be to the right hand side. But none of these alternatives were as good as the way it is now.

I see that now I usually have a one page view. And yes layout can be a pain.

[discuit]

I still think that parrying section needs a rewrite if i'm honest. It really just doesn't read well at all, its the only paragraph in all 3 books that i have to re-read over and over......and it still makes no sense.

[waysoftheearth]

May 26, 2014 5:16:05 GMT -6 discuit said:

I still think that parrying section needs a rewrite if i'm honest.

A couple of folks have requested the same. I'll release a revised version for discussion prior to the hardback.