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Post by vladtolenkov on Mar 5, 2014 15:32:02 GMT -6
So we now have information of spotty reliability that we're looking at two products initially coming out for D&D Next. This is all total speculation and wish fulfillment on my part, but I have been paying pretty close attention to what WOTC's been saying about their goals for their products.
Sooo. . .here's my thoughts on those two products:
The first item listed is a D&D Starter Set which costs $20.00:
-The Four core classes taking them through to at least 10th level (or even higher). -Basic Rules. -Info on how to design and run Dungeons Adventures for the DM. -A basic monster section. -A solid Village of Hommlet style intro adventure. -Character Sheets??
Next up is The Players Handbook which costs $50.00:
-More classes (adding at least another eight "classic" classes) -Expanded rules. -Information on how to design wilderness adventures & expanding the scope of the campaign. -An expanded beatiary.
Notably there isn't currently a listing for a Dungeon Master's Guide or a Monster Manual. This would seem to indicate that the items being released should let you start playing with just them. Thus I'm hoping that we get something that's actually closer to the Rules Cyclopedia in the "Players Handbook." Ideally you could skip the "Starter Set" and just buy into the Player's Handbook which would have ALL of the info in the starter set but be less noob friendly (and also be lacking a nice intro module). A group of good modules should come out pretty quickly and be useable by folks using any of the above products.
The Dungeon Masters Guide would be about advanced campaign planning, altering the rules to suit a campaign setting, extraplanar adventures etc. It should also be loaded with lost of ideas and advice on running the game.
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Post by vladtolenkov on Mar 5, 2014 15:48:00 GMT -6
The Monster Manual might come out later and be the "full roster" of the baddies we know and love. It would be useable (of course) by players with either the Starter Set or the Player's Handbook.
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Post by geoffrey on Mar 5, 2014 22:53:16 GMT -6
The first item listed is a D&D Starter Set which costs $20.00: -The Four core classes taking them through to at least 10th level (or even higher). -Basic Rules. -Info on how to design and run Dungeons Adventures for the DM. -A basic monster section. -A solid Village of Hommlet style intro adventure. -Character Sheets?? This is the one and only 5th Edition D&D item that I might be interested in. If it is a self-contained game that can easily be played old-school style such that it feels pretty much like OD&D, then I can imagine myself buying the set. Otherwise I have no interest. In any case I am not interested in any other 5th Edition D&D items. I like a small and basic chassis upon which I can build. I do not like large tomes of game rules and information.
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Post by geoffrey on Mar 6, 2014 21:19:18 GMT -6
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Post by Falconer on Mar 6, 2014 23:41:18 GMT -6
From skimming that article, it sounds like it would be like the Basic Rulebook + Players Handbook + Temple of Elemental Evil. That would be a pretty amazing Basic Game!
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Post by Zulgyan on Mar 7, 2014 15:10:24 GMT -6
Looks interesting, I hope they deliver.
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Post by ritt on Mar 11, 2014 20:33:09 GMT -6
Get that Starter Set into Wal-Mart and we all just might be on the cusp of something glorious and wonderful.
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Post by vladtolenkov on May 19, 2014 12:08:49 GMT -6
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idrahil
Level 6 Magician
The Lighter The Rules, The Better The Game!
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Post by idrahil on May 19, 2014 13:09:29 GMT -6
That is worth the price of admission. I'll probably pick one up. I recently got the "2nd Edition First Quest Boxed Set" and that is so stripped down it is nothing like 2nd Edition. And that is a good thing. Not that I don't like 2nd Edition...it's just I found I like very basic rule sets now days.
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Post by kesher on May 19, 2014 15:43:12 GMT -6
I'll pick that up, certainly. Will I ever buy the three core books for $50 each? Seems unlikely.
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Post by Finarvyn on May 20, 2014 3:26:34 GMT -6
If I understand correctly that the boxed set will be four-class with levels 1-5, that sounds very seductive. I've been playing in a Next game at my local game store and overall it's pretty well done, so I'll probably buy the core books as well.
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Post by Deleted on May 20, 2014 3:36:29 GMT -6
If I understand correctly that the boxed set will be four-class with levels 1-5, that sounds very seductive. I've been playing in a Next game at my local game store and overall it's pretty well done, so I'll probably buy the core books as well. I must confess, I'm intrigued by the boxed set and will pick up a copy when it hits the FLGS. If I like what I see, who knows? I might have to go the whole nine yards with it.
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Post by kesher on May 20, 2014 9:26:19 GMT -6
I'll pick that up, certainly. Will I ever buy the three core books for $50 each? Seems unlikely. Of course, upon reflection, I can't say I ever pay standard retail price for anything these days...that and a staggered release may indeed lead to my library getting yet more voluminous.
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Post by cadriel on May 20, 2014 14:46:42 GMT -6
I might get the adventures, if they're discounted on Amazon ($30 is a bit much). Wizards is awful at adventures but they didn't do these ones, Kobold Press did.
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Post by kesher on May 20, 2014 14:55:45 GMT -6
Okay, can't yet confirm this, but I've just seen some chatter saying Mike Mearls tweeted that, "to clarify", the Starter Set will NOT have rules for character generation; only pre-gens.
Anyone know for sure?
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Post by Falconer on May 20, 2014 19:35:07 GMT -6
Sure sounds like it. Lame!
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Post by Zenopus on May 20, 2014 19:53:09 GMT -6
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Post by Deleted on May 20, 2014 21:37:45 GMT -6
Oh, dear.
That is a bit of a disappointment to hear and dampens my enthusiasm somewhat. I'll probably give it a look anyway but I'd sure like to see "everything you need to play levels 1-5" included.
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Post by geoffrey on May 20, 2014 21:57:05 GMT -6
I had a "wait and see" attitude about the boxed set. But with the revelation that it does not contain character generation, my interest has all evaporated.
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Post by Deleted on May 20, 2014 22:24:46 GMT -6
I'm hoping more information about the "intermediate step" comes to light. I'll likely purchase the starter set because I'm curious about the mechanics of the new system and I think the asking price is fair.
I'll probably stick with OD&D just because I'm both happy and familiar with it, but I'll keep an open mind. You never know when the new version is the only game you can find.
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Post by llenlleawg on May 21, 2014 1:25:52 GMT -6
I had a "wait and see" attitude about the boxed set. But with the revelation that it does not contain character generation, my interest has all evaporated. geoffrey, the situation seems to be complicated, and is rooted in something not yet revealed about the new release. That is, Mearls has noted, cryptically, that you won't need the MM or the DMG to run a campaign (fair enough), but also (here's the odd part) you won't need a Starter Set or the Player's Handbook for character generation! So, it might be true that the SS itself does not have character generation. We'll see in under two months. However, it seems as though it will in fact be possible to generate characters, even run a campaign. How? They haven't said.
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Post by kenmeister on May 21, 2014 10:14:07 GMT -6
My guess is that character generation will be intimately tied to some sort of online subscription, meaning everyone who plays 5E *has* to have one unless they use the pre-gens in the starter set. 4E already started down that path.
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idrahil
Level 6 Magician
The Lighter The Rules, The Better The Game!
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Post by idrahil on May 21, 2014 10:22:24 GMT -6
My guess is that character generation will be intimately tied to some sort of online subscription, meaning everyone who plays 5E *has* to have one unless they use the pre-gens in the starter set. 4E already started down that path. lol. just lol From index cards to mandatory on-line subscription...
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Post by kesher on May 21, 2014 11:12:41 GMT -6
FWIW, @zenopus, you nailed it. . This, coupled with Mearls' quote: ...makes it probable purpose much clearer to me. And maybe this is the misunderstanding beneath which many of us (myself included) have been laboring: For WoTC, a "Starter Set" is fundamentally different than the TSR "Basic Set"; it was never intended to fill that niche--that was our assumption. AND, the more I think about it, the less ludicrous it is. I mean, the old B/X progression was never an intro into AD&D; it was a separate game. With that in mind, why would WoTC create something analogous to B/X? They only want to be selling ONE game, and so the Starter Set is meant to, well, get you started playing that game and, more specifically, to get you DMing that game. NOW, having said all that, do I wish there was cheaper entry point into the "whole" game for those of us who aren't just starting? Yes. And Mearls has made some ambiguous comments that may still turn out to at least partially address that issue. We'll see.
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Post by Falconer on May 21, 2014 11:37:16 GMT -6
Except that one of the things we were told about 5E’s design was that at its core it was as lite as Basic, and everything else in the game was optional/modular. I think, based on that, that old-schoolers had a reasonable hope that the new Starter Set would be a complete (albeit lite) game. Turns out it’s crippleware, and if you want to try to play 5e Basic-style, you’ll have to buy the full 960-page monstrosity and see if you can pare it down.
No thank you.
If Pathfinder (the heaviest game under the sun) can fit chargen rules in its Beginner Box, why can’t “lite and modular” 5e fit chargen rules in its Starter Set?
I’ll tell you why this disappoints me. I’m an old schooler and I’m never going to change. But I need a product that I can buy new and give to kids that I know, that will AT ALL resemble D&D as I understand it, so that if those kids come back to me with anecdotes or asking for advice I will have any sort of clue what they are talking about. Recently I went on eBay and paid top dollar for a pristine Mentzer set and a pristine copy of B2 to give to some kids I know. They understand it perfectly, and their anecdotes show an INSANE level of creativity and originality in their play. It ain’t broke… So just put it back in print, already.
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Post by llenlleawg on May 21, 2014 13:21:03 GMT -6
And maybe this is the misunderstanding beneath which many of us (myself included) have been laboring: For WoTC, a "Starter Set" is fundamentally different than the TSR "Basic Set"; it was never intended to fill that niche--that was our assumption. AND, the more I think about it, the less ludicrous it is. I mean, the old B/X progression was never an intro into AD&D; it was a separate game. With that in mind, why would WoTC create something analogous to B/X? They only want to be selling ONE game, and so the Starter Set is meant to, well, get you started playing that game and, more specifically, to get you DMing that game. NOW, having said all that, do I wish there was cheaper entry point into the "whole" game for those of us who aren't just starting? Yes. And Mearls has made some ambiguous comments that may still turn out to at least partially address that issue. We'll see. Actually, the Holmes Basic set was precisely intended to fill that niche, allowing people not already wargamers to enter into Dungeons & Dragons, passing from there to either D&D or, as TSR reframed it, to AD&D. I do think we need to be careful about accusations of crippleware. Apparently, people who have seen it but who are barred by NDAs from giving specifics are noting how it is not standard crippleware, and we are being assured that the SS itself will not have character creation rules, but that character creation will be possible. I hope that this isn't a subscription thing, since I don't see why a the four basic classes and four basic races with "standard" choices already beaked in would be very difficult to have made, given the rules as we have seen them. Still, I like to presume the good, and we'll see soon enough!
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Post by kesher on May 21, 2014 13:44:10 GMT -6
That's a good point about the Holmes set, so I guess there's "old school" precedent for a Starter Set. I also really hope it's not a subscrition necessity for something that basic (no pun intended...) Falconer, you make a good point in that the whole "modular" aspect of the rules seems to have gone to the wayside, at least as a marketed feature...
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Post by Finarvyn on May 21, 2014 14:27:32 GMT -6
My guess is that character generation will be intimately tied to some sort of online subscription, meaning everyone who plays 5E *has* to have one unless they use the pre-gens in the starter set. 4E already started down that path. That would make me sad, because it's potentially a "deal breaker" for me and I've played (and enjoyed) quite a few playtest sessions of Next. The more content that they hide away in an e-subscription format, the less enthusiasm I'll have for the rules set. Having said all that, I plan on buying the Starter Set (assuming that I don't hear any reason not to do so) and am still hopeful that it will contain enough to play. After all, the GenCon beta from last year had enough rules to create characters, so why not in the boxed set? What I'd love to see is something a lot like "Holmes Next."
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Post by vladtolenkov on May 21, 2014 16:30:31 GMT -6
Okay so I was totally wrong about the theorizing about products thing. . .
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Post by Deleted on May 21, 2014 16:33:20 GMT -6
Okay so I was totally wrong about the theorizing about products thing. . . Hey, theorizing about upcoming products is fun! You've started an interesting thread of conversation and that's never a bad thing!
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