FFC: about "Protection Points"

[mannclay]

Hello again, FFCers -

My question to all fellas here is as follows:

Can anyone offer a clearer explanation of how the dungeons were refilled using the magical "Protection Points" system? What i mean by "clearer" can also be an example of how it is used. I just cannot understand it as it's explained in the FFC, thanks.

[havard]

I'm hoping Aldarron will chime in here...

[mannclay]

Feb 25, 2014 15:18:19 GMT -6 havard said:

I'm hoping Aldarron will chime in here...

Oh yes, that would be awesome.

[mannclay]

Meanwhile...i'm curious also about the A,B,C,D box under the "Blackmoor Dungeons" chapter. So, Arneson has lists called "Wandering Monster Area" for levels 1-6. Do these lists coincide with "Protection Points" or are they a separate thing? I feel like i am missing one little detail to then be capable of groking the system well.

[aldarron]

From Dragons at Dawn Supplement I:
The Protection Point system presented in Dragons at Dawn compromised somewhat the method Arneson suggested in order to achieve results similar to what he actually did in his own games. In fact it is clear he generated Protection Points in a number of different ways, some of them by simply multiplying 10 times a 2d6 result...


Dungeon designers may prefer...  going back to Arneson’s original suggested method.


Level Points x 1d10
1         5
2        15
3       15
4       25
5       35
6       40
7+     50


Once a room/area has been determined to be occupied, the number of Protection Points for the room are determined by rolling a 1d10 and multiplying the result times the number in the appropriate column, for the level. So for example, to get the Protection Points for a level 2 room, it would be 1d10 x 15, giving a range of anywhere from 15 to 150.


.....

There you go. Note that for Blackmoor dungeon Dave made three groups of monsters:

Group I cost 50-100 points each (Balrog, Dragon, giant etc.)
Group II cost 15-20 points each (Lyacanthrope, ogre etc.)
Group III cost 1-5 points each (goblins, orcs etc.)

You could expand the monsters on this limited list if you convert to HD and count "*" special powers as +1HD. Roughly the range is:

Group I = 6+ HD
Group II = 3 to 5 HD
Group III = 1 to 2 HD

Feb 26, 2014 7:36:14 GMT -6 mannclay said:

Meanwhile...i'm curious also about the A,B,C,D box under the "Blackmoor Dungeons" chapter. So, Arneson has lists called "Wandering Monster Area" for levels 1-6. Do these lists coincide with "Protection Points" or are they a separate thing? I feel like i am missing one little detail to then be capable of groking the system well.

All I think this means is that for the '76 gencon game he physically divided the level maps into 4 areas and had 4 wandering monsters prepared - one for each quadrant of the map. Frex, adventurers encountering a wandering monster on level 4 in "quadrant C" will face 11 giant beetles. Protection points were a pre-D&D thing that had nothing to do with the stocking list for levels 1-6.

[mannclay]

Feb 27, 2014 10:43:22 GMT -6 aldarron said:

From Dragons at Dawn Supplement I:
The Protection Point system presented in Dragons at Dawn compromised somewhat the method Arneson suggested in order to achieve results similar to what he actually did in his own games. In fact it is clear he generated Protection Points in a number of different ways, some of them by simply multiplying 10 times a 2d6 result...


Dungeon designers may prefer...  going back to Arneson’s original suggested method.


Level Points x 1d10
1         5
2        15
3       15
4       25
5       35
6       40
7+     50


Once a room/area has been determined to be occupied, the number of Protection Points for the room are determined by rolling a 1d10 and multiplying the result times the number in the appropriate column, for the level. So for example, to get the Protection Points for a level 2 room, it would be 1d10 x 15, giving a range of anywhere from 15 to 150.


.....

There you go. Note that for Blackmoor dungeon Dave made three groups of monsters:

Group I cost 50-100 points each (Balrog, Dragon, giant etc.)
Group II cost 15-20 points each (Lyacanthrope, ogre etc.)
Group III cost 1-5 points each (goblins, orcs etc.)

You could expand the monsters on this limited list if you convert to HD and count "*" special powers as +1HD. Roughly the range is:

Group I = 6+ HD
Group II = 3 to 5 HD
Group III = 1 to 2 HD

Feb 26, 2014 7:36:14 GMT -6 mannclay said:

Meanwhile...i'm curious also about the A,B,C,D box under the "Blackmoor Dungeons" chapter. So, Arneson has lists called "Wandering Monster Area" for levels 1-6. Do these lists coincide with "Protection Points" or are they a separate thing? I feel like i am missing one little detail to then be capable of groking the system well.

All I think this means is that for the '76 gencon game he physically divided the level maps into 4 areas and had 4 wandering monsters prepared - one for each quadrant of the map. Frex, adventurers encountering a wandering monster on level 4 in "quadrant C" will face 11 giant beetles. Protection points were a pre-D&D thing that had nothing to do with the stocking list for levels 1-6.

ahh...ok, I could not place those pieces together without your help! Thank you, sir. One question though: how did you get the cost of the monster groups? I do not see that in the FFC.

I find this way of "buying" monsters with points as payment uncanny and interesting. It would seem to offer the referee some fun in 'shopping' for monsters.

[Red Baron]

Feb 28, 2014 21:30:11 GMT -6 mannclay said:

how did you get the cost of the monster groups? I do not see that in the FFC.

Chainmail

[Red Baron]

aldarron

Would getting goblins give you 20 for 2.5 points or 1 for 2.5 points?

[mannclay]

Feb 28, 2014 23:04:11 GMT -6 Red Baron said:

Feb 28, 2014 21:30:11 GMT -6 mannclay said:

how did you get the cost of the monster groups? I do not see that in the FFC.

Chainmail

ahhh...ok, thanks.

[aldarron]

Yep CHAINMAIL. Those numbers are the "typical" cost used by Dave for the critters he listed in each group. Sometimes they varied, and some creatures were strengthened or weakened. As far as I can tell, the I,II, III monster group method was not used any of the stocking lists in the FFC, mind you. It seems to be more random. For that matter, the way he says he broke down protection points doesn't seem to be evident in the FFC lists either. Lake Gloomy was clearly stocked with a random 3d6 * 10 protection points for all levels, for example.

Dave was a constant experimenter and a fly by the seat of his pants Referee. Don't expect consistency in the FFC.

[mannclay]

Mar 4, 2014 6:17:00 GMT -6 aldarron said:

Dave was a constant experimenter and a fly by the seat of his pants Referee. Don't expect consistency in the FFC.

I am beginning to understand this "fly by the seat of his pants" refereeing and feel the FFC is thus teaching me to do the same. d**n, I love this book!

[aldarron]

I wrote a fairly detailed look at Dave's use of protection points to stock dungeons, along with some other methods, on my blog Hidden in Shadows