How To Improve Survival Rate Of Beginning Characters?

[jcstephens]

Carcosa is a deadly place. Unlike most other settings, instead of a relatively safe multilevel dungeon for beginning characters to start off with they're required to adventure overland right from the beginning. First level characters encountering monsters of the types and numbers found on the Wilderness Encounter Tables tend to die. A lot. The constant stream of replacements begins to strain credulity ("ANOTHER escaped slave? How to the slavers even stay in business?"). The obvious solution of starting characters at higher levels not only makes a mockery of the whole "long road to greatness" theme characteristic of OD&D, it also raises the question of how communities of ordinary men survive. They have to come out of their holes sometime, if they plan on eating regularly.

I'm thinking that improving the role of missile weapons is the way to go here. A barrage of stones, arrows and hurled spears should soften up even the toughest charging beast, either driving it off (if morale rules are being used) or making it die quicker in melee. Increasing the rate of fire for combat turns prior to melee would work, and I'm also considering critical hits for missile weapons only.

Has anyone else tried any of this? How did it work out? And what other solutions to the problem might there be?

[strangebrew]

Just make their starting citadel or whatever located above a dungeon, like the undercity of Tekumel. You could have their community located in part of a complex, with the other sections being abandoned and inhabited by weirdness. Their first goal is to clear and secure the entire complex for their community, as per the wishes of the Immaculate Flower of Ambrosia or whoever their king is.

By the time they hit 4th level, they could have cleared the surrounding buildings and the dungeon levels, are considered "Heroes" to their peers (as any 4th level Hero should be) and are more prepared to venture out. Heck they might be able to overthrow the Manifestation of White Lillies and install themselves as the leader(s), or maybe they get exiled because they are a growing threat to his rule.

[Morandir]

What strangebrew said. You can start PCs off wherever you want, and if you decide there's a nice multi-level dungeon there - one of your own design, or a module that you like - that's your prerogative.

[crusssdaddy]

I think the ability to flee trouble should be emphasized, with additional rules where necessary. Ask players to be innovative when considering diversions, flight tactics, etc. Offer XP for accomplishments other than killing and loot acquisition.

Another consideration is that probably their most common encounter will be with Spawn of Shub-Niggurath, many of these of the non-intelligent variety. I would take "non-intelligent" literally. These are not creatures that evolved and have millions of years of instinct or an animal intelligence to call upon: they were squeezed out of S-N's butt and now flop hideously across the surface of the planet with no intelligence guiding them. I don't see them choosing optimal behavior in any circumstance, so out strategizing them in combat should be well within player capabilities.

[Deleted]

Use DCC character generation.

[geoffrey]

Oct 9, 2013 14:20:40 GMT -6 jcstephens said:

Unlike most other settings, instead of a relatively safe multilevel dungeon for beginning characters to start off with they're required to adventure overland right from the beginning.

In the nicest possible way, I'd like to disagree with this premise. Check-out my module for beginning D&D characters on Carcosa: "Fungoid Gardens of the Bone Sorcerer" (first published in Fight On! #4 and now included in the Carcosa book). The titular gardens can be merely the first level of a dungeon that could be vast enough to hold an entire campaign. I included that ominous passageway sloping into the depths precisely for enterprising referees to connect with their own 2nd level of the dungeon!

In fact, I have an 18-level megadungeon set on Carcosa. Megadungeons really do work on Carcosa!

Link with a very little bit about the dungeon:
www.youtube.com/watch?v=Ro2DKNa7iSw

[raritus]

Hi:

You could always bump 'em a Level or three. Sorcerers still don't get any rituals, tho'.


HtH
r

[Hans E Magnusson]

Oct 9, 2013 21:48:13 GMT -6 geoffrey said:

In fact, I have an 18-level megadungeon set on Carcosa. Megadungeons really do work on Carcosa!

Will it be published?

[geoffrey]

Oct 9, 2013 23:36:49 GMT -6 Hans E Magnusson said:

Oct 9, 2013 21:48:13 GMT -6 geoffrey said:

In fact, I have an 18-level megadungeon set on Carcosa. Megadungeons really do work on Carcosa!

Will it be published?

Ever? Perhaps.

Soon? No.

The youtube link I gave explains why.

[stevemitchell]

"Use DCC character generation."

Pulling up a human DCC character from my files. . .

Azath Kaido, 0-level wainwright, 3 hit points, armed with a club, equipped with 3 gold pieces, 1 iron spike, and 1 pushcart filled with straw.

Estimated survival time on Carcosa: about 10 minutes into his first adventure.

[crusssdaddy]

You can also give the characters a limited-use tech or sorcery devices that emulate magic-user spells that would be used to even the score. A handful of Sleep grenades, or a tazer with 1D charges that creates a Hold Person effect via paralysis, or a cult medallion that can Charm Person. Limited supply or charges means they must be used wisely and will be gone by the time the characters become more powerful (or replace them with better loot).

[Malcadon]

Like with any D&D game, I like to have the PCs start at 3rd level. They are not truly established heroes yet, but they are fairly exceptional figures by their own right. They would have some past, yet-disclosed adventures that could help the players development their character in later adventures (past enemies return, old favors repaid, etc.).

Most of all, I try to avoid having players go through their spare characters. Three Hid Dice are enough to give them a slightly better chance when they are forced to fight, but even then, they still have to be extremely careful. Like the little running man DM badge listed in my signature notes: "Players in my game should be prepared to Run when the odds are against them."

[snorri]

A few methods to bump starting pcs :
- add a kicker to hpo at start. 20hp like in Hackmaster, for example.
- Start with hp = COn+ standard dice
- Use a hp bonus for armor (2 for leather, 4 for mail, 6 for plate)
- ...

[geoffrey]

If none of the PCs was lucky enough to get psionics, give a random PC psionic powers.

[llenlleawg]

Oct 10, 2013 13:15:07 GMT -6 snorri said:

A few methods to bump starting pcs :
- add a kicker to hpo at start. 20hp like in Hackmaster, for example.
- Start with hp = COn+ standard dice

One way to avoid the hit point inflation that such boosters produce is to use this method in conjunction with the "reroll hit points at each new level" approach. So, give all 1st level characters the average hit points of a 3rd level character of that class (or whatever, but 3rd level seems to be the sweet spot of survivability for many characters). At each level after 1st, roll all hit dice for the new level. If less than the average for 3rd, keep the old total. If higher, take the new total and proceed as normal. Do this again at 3rd level. After 3rd, you can either reroll at every level or just roll the additional hit dice for 4th and beyond.

I haven't tried this myself, but it does keep the hit points of the whole game within the normal range, boosting lower-level characters but keeping 3rd+ level characters where they have always been.

[Malcadon]

Another reason why I have the PCs start at 3rd level instead of 1st, is that I reserve level 1 for basic warriors (I note 2nd level as "Veteran"), while leaving 0-level men for non-combatants. Since Carcossa is a dangerous world, only a rare few (weak, highly isolated) adults have the luxury of being able to 0-level. They do the same in Dark Sun.

I also see Hit Points as an abstract concept that reflects a Hero's innate ability to avoid hits like Luke Skywalker, then to adsorb then like that human-pincushion named Boromir. That is, if your character made his save and took half-damage, he came out unscathed, but it was a close-call and it ate a good chunk of his luck. Also like Star Wars, the heroes (high-level characters) could be facing a squad of highly-trained Stormtroopers (low-level grunts), but they keep missing the heroes (despite the fact that they usually succeed with their to-hit and damage rolls) because The Force (lots of Hit Points) is with them. And with that, I allow the PCs to recover more HPs at a shorter rate, if only to keep the adventure going — becoming badly injured is more of a plot device. This may sound almost cartoony or a contrast to such a gritty world as Carcosa, but I see abstract Hit Points as a good means to reflect the often one-sided nature of pulp fantasy.

[snorri]

A really pulp method I generally use is : at 0hp, PC's are not dead, but knocked-out, prisonners, and so on. Then, they have to escape the new situation (cells, torture table,... I had a PC escaping from a boiling oil caldron once). This is what happens in comics or movies. It makes the game going on. I had PCs escaping after months of slavery in a hobgoblin mine, when they discover they were so exhausted and useless te monsters decided to eat them soon. Then, they escaped almost unarmed and half-naked in a frozen swamp.

[ritt]

Warning: I have a childish, near-obsessive love of props (Cards, poker chips, tokens, etc.) and "Weird dice". Read no further if either of these things are turn-off to you.

For all of my d20-based games I pass out a certain number of poker chips (The more "Over-the-Top" I want the game, the more chips). Spending a blue chip allows you to bump up the dice used in one roll by one step (i.e. make a d20 roll with a d24) and a red chip allows you to bump it up by two (i.e. make a d20 roll with a d30). Chips of either color can be spent to negate critical hits on the character (I use the '75 EMPIRE OF THE PETAL THRONE crit rules: On a natural 20 you do double damage, plus roll the d20 again for an instant kill on a 19 or 20).

This idea is not original to me, but I have totally forgotten where I stole it from.

[ritt]

The game CRYPTS & THINGS has a very elegant and "Heroic" rule regarding what happens when characters hit 0 HP that I now use for all my games.

I won't spoil it here. Go buy the game. You won't regret it.

[Deleted]

Just out of curiosity, do you have a mechanism whereby monsters negate critical hits by the players?

[ritt]

Oct 24, 2013 15:54:02 GMT -6 @dubeers said:

Just out of curiosity, do you have a mechanism whereby monsters negate critical hits by the players?

No. Only PCs get chips.

[Deleted]

If I understood your original post, then ...

You have two ways to increase player damage, and a way to negate critical hits. None of which, an assumption based on your reply above, are available to NPC monsters.

Have you considered just increasing baseline player damage and hit points instead? Again, just curious.

[ritt]

Oct 24, 2013 22:20:00 GMT -6 @dubeers said:

If I understood your original post, then ...

You have two ways to increase player damage, and a way to negate critical hits. None of which, an assumption based on your reply above, are available to NPC monsters.

Have you considered just increasing baseline player damage and hit points instead? Again, just curious.

Chips aren't available to NPCs because I want my campaign to have a "70's Sword & Sorcery paperback or comic book" feel and they're one of my ways of making the PCs a little more EPIC and METAL while still keeping the "Zero to Hero" level progression that to me is a big part of the heart of The World's Most Popular Fantasy RPG (There are other tools I use to reinforce this mood that have nothing to do with actual game rules, such as re-naming the thief class "Swashbuckler"*). As to why I don't just increase attack/damage/saves: When and how players spend chips is a neat little bit of player style. The more aggressive players spend them on attacks, the more cautious spend them on saves, the really ambitious save them up over several games to blow them all on one important battle, and there is a noticeable jump in the tension level when they run out and fights become dramatically deadlier.

*I'm using the version of the Thief from CRYPTS & THINGS, which is more of a light, fast, sneaky fighter than a fragile backstabber.

[Deleted]

Cool. Thanks for the insight.

[smokestackjones]

How about using Carcosa with Tunnels and Trolls?

-SJ

[ritt]

Oct 25, 2013 20:54:04 GMT -6 smokestackjones said:

How about using Carcosa with Tunnels and Trolls?

-SJ

Whoa... CAVERNS & CULTS. Now that would be a gonzoid game.

T&T even already has Leiber ghouls (bone men) as a race doesn't it?

[smokestackjones]

Oct 25, 2013 22:42:56 GMT -6 ritt said:

Oct 25, 2013 20:54:04 GMT -6 smokestackjones said:

How about using Carcosa with Tunnels and Trolls?

-SJ

Whoa... CAVERNS & CULTS. Now that would be a gonzoid game.

T&T even already has Leiber ghouls (bone men) as a race doesn't it?

I believe so.

-SJ

[ritt]

Roll 1d20 three times on the following table. WARNING: This chart pushes Carcosa away from it's original stark bleakness and into more of a pulp action direction. Not all referees will or should allow it.

* = This background can be had multiple times. Effects are cumulative (i.e. if you roll "Boomstick" twice you have two weapons).

** = This background can only be gotten once. If you roll it twice ignore the result and instead add +1 to your lowest ability score.

1)** "IT FOLLOWED ME HOME MOM, CAN I KEEP IT?": You have a loyal pet that will fight for you. It has the same stats as a wolf but may be a reptile, insectoid, robot, or even a lobotomized human slave if you desire. Every time you gain a level it gets a hit point.

2)*"THIS... IS A BOOM STICK!": You get a random alien weapon. You know how to use it.

3)**BEETLE KNIGHT: You start play with a giant riding beetle, a set of plate mail, a shield, a lance, a flail, and a teenage squire (0-level). You have sworn obedience to the ruler of one of the settlements on the campaign map.

4)**"HI-HO SILVER!": Start with one of the following mounts, your choice: A robot unicorn with a lightsaber horn, a giant mutant water-bear (requires almost no water), a riding dinosaur, a horse as smart as a man, or a giant bird, bat, or pterodactyl. It's stats are up to the referee but 4 HD (or 2 HD with special powers) is reasonable. It's HD never improves but it gains 1 HP every time you level up.

5)**CARCOSAN LOVE STORY: You have a faithful lover with an 18 CHA. You get a +1 to attacks, damage, and saves when defending him, her, or it.

6)** CARCOSAN SWASHBUCKLERY: If you have a pistol in one hand and a sword in the other and you are wearing no armor or leather armor you get an extra attack at the end of the round after all other combatants have gone. This attack must be with a different weapon than the first attack you made in the round.

7)** VETERAN OF THE PSYCHIC WARS: You have psionics. If the character already has psionics, you get +1 CHA.

8)** INITIATE OF THE CELESTIAL VIRGIN FIST: +1 attack and damage unarmed. Your fists count as weapons for the purposes of any game effects. You can use the "Lucky Kung-Fu Numbers" rules from the Playing D&D with Porn Stars blog.

9)** SWORN TO THE METAL: You can sing, and you can master any musical instrument with only 1d6 days of practice. If you have a positive CHA mod you add it to attack and damage in melee.

10)** WARLORD: +1 to the morale of any NPCs serving under you. Add your level to your maximum number of retainers.

11)* HARDCORE: +5 hit points.

12)** "BEEN OUT THERE ON THE EDGE SO LONG, WHERE THE WINDS OF LIMBO ROAR": Immune to insanity.

13)*BLADE OF MARTIAN WHITE STEEL: You start with one melee weapon that has a +1 to attack & damage and counts as magical.

14)*COAT OF MARTIAN WHITE STEEL: You start with a shield or suit of chain or plate armor (Your choice) that has a +1 to AC and counts as magical.

15)*DEFENDER OF HUMANITY or MONSTER MASTER: +1 attack and damage vs. monsters.

16)*DEMOLISHER: +1 attack and damage vs. robots, androids, constructs, etc.

17)*REAPER: +1 attack and damage vs. humans.

18)*WEAPONMASTER: Pick a single type of (Non-high-tech)weapon. You get +1 to attack and damage when using it. If you roll this more than once you must pick another weapon.

19)*GOD OF VIOLENCE: Add +1 to your attacks and damage and improve your AC by one if you are outnumbered. Rolling this a second time makes the bonus +2.

20)** AYATOLLAH OF ROCK'N'ROLLAH: Pick one of the settlements on the map. You are a noble of some sort there. You have a colorful title. You have a manor and 1d6 slaves back in your hometown. The people there defer to you. There are 1d4 people between you and the throne.

[smokestackjones]

Nov 2, 2013 23:51:28 GMT -6 ritt said:

Roll 1d20 three times on the following table. WARNING: This chart pushes Carcosa away from it's original stark bleakness and into more of a pulp action direction. Not all referees will or should allow it.

* = This background can be had multiple times. Effects are cumulative (i.e. if you roll "Boomstick" twice you have two weapons).

** = This background can only be gotten once. If you roll it twice ignore the result and instead add +1 to your lowest ability score.

1)** "IT FOLLOWED ME HOME MOM, CAN I KEEP IT?": You have a loyal pet that will fight for you. It has the same stats as a wolf but may be a reptile, insectoid, robot, or even a lobotomized human slave if you desire. Every time you gain a level it gets a hit point.

2)*"THIS... IS A BOOM STICK!": You get a random alien weapon. You know how to use it.

3)**BEETLE KNIGHT: You start play with a giant riding beetle, a set of plate mail, a shield, a lance, a flail, and a teenage squire (0-level). You have sworn obedience to the ruler of one of the settlements on the campaign map.

4)**"HI-HO SILVER!": Start with one of the following mounts, your choice: A robot unicorn with a lightsaber horn, a giant mutant water-bear (requires almost no water), a riding dinosaur, a horse as smart as a man, or a giant bird, bat, or pterodactyl. It's stats are up to the referee but 4 HD (or 2 HD with special powers) is reasonable. It's HD never improves but it gains 1 HP every time you level up.

5)**CARCOSAN LOVE STORY: You have a faithful lover with an 18 CHA. You get a +1 to attacks, damage, and saves when defending him, her, or it.

6)** CARCOSAN SWASHBUCKLERY: If you have a pistol in one hand and a sword in the other and you are wearing no armor or leather armor you get an extra attack at the end of the round after all other combatants have gone. This attack must be with a different weapon than the first attack you made in the round.

7)** VETERAN OF THE PSYCHIC WARS: You have psionics. If the character already has psionics, you get +1 CHA.

8)** INITIATE OF THE CELESTIAL VIRGIN FIST: +1 attack and damage unarmed. Your fists count as weapons for the purposes of any game effects. You can use the "Lucky Kung-Fu Numbers" rules from the Playing D&D with Porn Stars blog.

9)** SWORN TO THE METAL: You can sing, and you can master any musical instrument with only 1d6 days of practice. If you have a positive CHA mod you add it to attack and damage in melee.

10)** WARLORD: +1 to the morale of any NPCs serving under you. Add your level to your maximum number of retainers.

11)* HARDCORE: +5 hit points.

12)** "BEEN OUT THERE ON THE EDGE SO LONG, WHERE THE WINDS OF LIMBO ROAR": Immune to insanity.

13)*BLADE OF MARTIAN WHITE STEEL: You start with one melee weapon that has a +1 to attack & damage and counts as magical.

14)*COAT OF MARTIAN WHITE STEEL: You start with a shield or suit of chain or plate armor (Your choice) that has a +1 to AC and counts as magical.

15)*DEFENDER OF HUMANITY or MONSTER MASTER: +1 attack and damage vs. monsters.

16)*DEMOLISHER: +1 attack and damage vs. robots, androids, constructs, etc.

17)*REAPER: +1 attack and damage vs. humans.

18)*WEAPONMASTER: Pick a single type of (Non-high-tech)weapon. You get +1 to attack and damage when using it. If you roll this more than once you must pick another weapon.

19)*GOD OF VIOLENCE: Add +1 to your attacks and damage and improve your AC by one if you are outnumbered. Rolling this a second time makes the bonus +2.

20)** AYATOLLAH OF ROCK'N'ROLLAH: Pick one of the settlements on the map. You are a noble of some sort there. You have a colorful title. You have a manor and 1d6 slaves back in your hometown. The people there defer to you. There are 1d4 people between you and the throne.

Frankly, IMO that's the direction Carcosa needs to go.

-SJ

[Deleted]

Nov 2, 2013 23:51:28 GMT -6 ritt said:

3)**BEETLE KNIGHT: You start play with a giant riding beetle, a set of plate mail, a shield, a lance, a flail, and a teenage squire (0-level). You have sworn obedience to the ruler of one of the settlements on the campaign map.

I especially like this one!