Spells per adventure?

[waysoftheearth]

This is interesting...

Spells & Levels: The number above each column is the spell level (complexity, a somewhat subjective determination on the part of your authors). The number in each column opposite each applicable character indicates the number of spells of each level that can be used (remembered during any single adventure) by that character. Spells are listed and explained later. A spell used once may not be reused in the same day.

(M&M p19).

So it's the number of spells that can be memorised for any single adventure.
and...
Once used the spell cannot be reused in the same day.


Does this imply that if an adventure spans multiple days, a m-u or cleric can reuse spells be had memorised for the adventure, even if he had used them on previous days? I.e, would the magical sorts be "recharged" with the same memorised spells on each day of the adventure?

Also, the 3LBBs tell us that a dungeon expedition should strike off 1 week from the referee's calendar, but that:

The time for dungeon adventures considers only preparations and a typical, one day descent into the pits.

(U&WA p36).

So, it's kinda saying that a dungeon delve of one day duration is assume to take a week overall, by the time you make preparations, get there, do the delve, get back, and rest up. But there's no comment about longer dungeon adventures.

[Stormcrow]

Aug 21, 2013 0:13:05 GMT -6 waysoftheearth said:

So it's the number of spells that can be memorised for any single adventure.
and...
Once used the spell cannot be reused in the same day.

I believe we've discussed the difference between an adventure and a day before. It's just a simplifying assumption that a dungeon adventure takes a day. At the end of the adventure/day, you go home. Don't read too much into it.

The time for dungeon adventures considers only preparations and a typical, one
day descent into the pits.

(U&WA p36).

So, it's kinda saying that a dungeon delve of one day duration is assume to take a week overall, by the time you make preparations, get there, do the delve, get back, and rest up.

Exactly. It's another simplifying assumption; if you want to play out the buying of equipment, the hiring of henchmen and hirelings, and so on, you can ignore the week-assumption and it will take as long as it takes.

[Falconer]

In Ernie’s reminiscences in Gygax Magazine #2, he talks about how Gary put the “only one adventure per week” rule into place in order to put the brakes on Tenser and Robilar’s advancement. Those two were adventuring multiple times per week and putting way too much XP distance between themselves and everyone else (who rarely adventured more than once a week).

[Finarvyn]

I've been thinking about this recently, so I revived the old thread instead of starting a new one.

In 4E (and in 13th Age, which is where I encounter it) the rules break spells down into "at will" and "encounter" and "daily" categories. I kind of like that.

"At will" spells could be vauge cantrips (technically not in OD&D but examples are in C&C and AD&D and elsewhere) and some 1st level spells like light and read magic and other spells that any magic user ought to be able to do often. Probably some limit would have to occur for combat-based spells, but I like a "zap spell" where the MU has to roll to hit and acts just like a bow but they can be in persona instead of shooting a bow. At-will spells would always require some sort of to-hit roll to offset the fact that the MU would get so many.

Higher level spells might be ranked as "per encounter" or "per day" depending upon power level. Perhaps levels 1-3 would be per encounter and 4-6 per day. (A different scale perhaps if you use the 1-9 spell range from Greyhawk.)

Anyway, this would require a bit of a shift in thinking away from OD&D's "fire and forget" and (ironically) back towards the Chainmail magic system.

[Deleted]

I've grown to like the spells-per-week instead of the spells-per-day. It doesn't affect the PC's power level much but it goes a long way to reduce the effect of the magical industrial revolution. Spells like Create Food won't have setting crushing implications if can't be cast once per day. It also makes overland travel more risky as the party wizards can't just unload on their one encounter per day.

Rather than adjust the recharge rate by spell level, Empire of the Petal Throne does it by individual spell. Some spells take longer to recover than other. These spells might "fatigue" a spell slot after they are cast. One thing I've done is to have spells with long duration, such as Charm Person, fatigue the spell slot until the spell expires.

[waysoftheearth]

FWIW, we also see the "spells per expedition" terminology used here:

The "Spells Table" gives the maximum number of times a magic-user or cleric can cast spells of the indicated levels during an expedition.

Apr 20, 2014 17:52:04 GMT -6 @hedgehobbit said:

It also makes overland travel more risky as the party wizards can't just unload on their one encounter per day.

This is particularly relevant, I think.
In the wilderness exploration game each "turn" is a day in duration. Magic-users gain a very significant advantage if they can use their full complement of spells each and every turn.

Spells "per expedition" makes more sense to me in this context.

[Deleted]

Funny how the text is so troublesome!

In practice, it was quite simple; a spell slot was used when the spell was cast, and remained that way until the magic user could rest at least eight hours and then spend at least an hour with the correct spell book to replenish the spell.

[riftstone]

Did anyone ever try to rest inside a dungeon?

[Deleted]

Yes. I didn't, but others did. Most of us figured it was a particularly elaborate form of Russian roulette, with six wandering monster checks per hour.

ON the other hand, Robilar and Terick rousted the entire first level of Greyhawk and took it over as their own, and started charging tolls.

[Porphyre]

Aug 21, 2013 0:13:05 GMT -6 waysoftheearth said:

Does this imply that if an adventure spans multiple days, a m-u or cleric can reuse spells be had memorised for the adventure, even if he had used them on previous days? I.e, would the magical sorts be "recharged" with the same memorised spells on each day of the adventure?

I think that was Moldvay's interpretation .

[Stormcrow]

Moldvay was simplifying for the Basic Set. He says an adventure lasts a day, and you can use each of your memorized spells once per adventure. The Expert Set points out that adventures can last longer than a day, and so spells can be rememorized during adventures if they last longer than a day.

Don't confuse presentation and interpretation.

[Porphyre]

Moldvay actually adresses the possibility of adventures during more than a day and the possibility to rememorize spells without mention of spellbooks.
Granted, it is presented as an exception, and one can consider that the Expert rules supersede it.

If, however, an adventure lasts longer than a day, a character may re-memorize "erased" spells (spells already cast) once a day. First the character must be well-rested, usually an uninterrupted full night's sleep. Then by spending an hour of "character time" undisturbed, a spell caster of levels 1-3 may memorize all of his or her "erased" spells.

[Necropraxis]

Aug 21, 2013 0:13:05 GMT -6 waysoftheearth said:

Also, the 3LBBs tell us that a dungeon expedition should strike off 1 week from the referee's calendar

I do something similar, though the way I handle it the downtime (which I assume to be about a week, but leave relatively abstract most of the time) is required for HP and spell recovery. So, if PCs want to delve two days in a row they can, but they are using the same pool of resources. PCs reroll their HD to represent recovery, reprepare spells, pay their bar tab, and so forth once they spend time on a proper downtime. I also roll the town equivalent of a random encounter check (a 1 in 6 chance that some complication affects the PCs in town during recovery). So, the town is handled somewhat like a dungeon turn, writ large.

[blackbarn]

I like the terminology "remembered during any single adventure." It doesn't say "memorized before the adventure." In the spirit of looking at the game with fresh eyes, that could be read as whatever spells the player wishes to use during an adventure are the ones the caster managed to "remember", and then he simply can't recall any more spells that day 'till he's rested. Tomorrow he may "remember" others as they are needed.

By the way, this:

Aug 21, 2013 0:13:05 GMT -6 waysoftheearth said:

Does this imply that if an adventure spans multiple days, a m-u or cleric can reuse spells be had memorised for the adventure, even if he had used them on previous days? I.e, would the magical sorts be "recharged" with the same memorised spells on each day of the adventure?

Is similar in function to how the new 5th edition Basic rules handle wizard spells. Do you think someone at WotC read and liked this thread?