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Post by Finarvyn on Jul 18, 2013 7:07:56 GMT -6
I was bored last night and found on my shelf a copy of the Guardians of the Flame (Joel Rosenberg) omnibus of the first three books in the series. I read* this series back in the 1980's and didn't remember much about it other than that it is the old "real world gamers go into a fantasy world" theme. Part of what interested me is Rosenberg's details about the RPG his characters are playing. I probably should have taken notes, but I found it interesting that they rolled 5d4 to generate stats. In addition, the d4's were numbered 0-3 rather than 1-4. Maybe Rosenberg invented "funky DCC dice" 30 years before Goodman. I wonder if (1) he actually played RPGs or just was familar with them, and (2) if he was trying to be similar but not exactly the same for legal reasons. When he mentions spells they sound a lot like D&D, but then he'll throw in some detail that is so wonky I have to wonder. Anyway -- anyone read these? Should I bother to finish the omnibus? Will I want to find more of the series? _______________ * Funny story, I suppose. I'm not sure I actually read much of the series in the 1980's. The paperbacks I bought in the 1980's somehow got doused with some sort of perfume, and every time I started to read it I got a headache from the fumes. I may have only gotten through the first half of the first book before I sold the lot to a local used bookstore.
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jasmith
Level 5 Thaumaturgist
Posts: 316
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Post by jasmith on Jul 18, 2013 9:11:59 GMT -6
Hell yes, you should finish the omnibus! Rosenberg managed to transcend the wonkiness of the premise and delivered a violent, gritty fantasy series, that also has humor, heart and soul.
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Post by kesher on Jul 18, 2013 9:48:22 GMT -6
Yeah, they're great novels, and he definitely gamed---he's a Twin Cities native. I'm pretty sure Victor Raymond gamed with him back in the day...
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Post by barrataria on Jul 20, 2013 22:47:00 GMT -6
Hell yes, you should finish the omnibus! Rosenberg managed to transcend the wonkiness of the premise and delivered a violent, gritty fantasy series, that also has humor, heart and soul. This indeed. Excellent books if you ignore the silly "game becomes real" conceit. In particular I liked the focus on tactics in the various battle sequences, among the best. And I have ripped off various aspects of his world here and there. As to the game rules, it certainly reads as if he consciously changed things to avoid suit (remember this was back when TSR had the Monty Burns style room full of lawyers available at the push of a button).
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Post by Finarvyn on Jul 21, 2013 6:19:13 GMT -6
I'm around 150 pages into the first book and I don't think I've read this far before because overall things don't seem familiar. Then I'll hit some detail and think "huh...maybe I did read this." Anyway, I'm enjoying it.
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Post by archersix on Aug 3, 2013 22:47:41 GMT -6
I read those a loooong time ago. I beleive back when they came out, early 80's? I really enjoyed them. Some things stick out in my memory. The wizard blasting most of their supplies with a lightning bolt. The one guy going off the deep end and 'becoming' his one handed thief character before being put to death. Meeting the dragon for the first time.
I'd like to find them again to reread. I believe they are long out of print, and sadly there are no good used book stores in my area.
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Post by Ghul on Aug 6, 2013 16:43:22 GMT -6
I read the first three WAY BACK then, too. But I never went any further, but my buddy Jimmy swears by them much the same way jasmith does.
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Post by Allandaros on Aug 7, 2013 13:12:09 GMT -6
If I didn't like the first one (save for the description of the game mechanics for character generation), is it worth pursuing the later books?
(I found the first book to be clumsily written and a bit boring when I read it; this was a few years ago.)
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Post by The Semi-Retired Gamer on Sept 29, 2014 16:08:04 GMT -6
If I didn't like the first one (save for the description of the game mechanics for character generation), is it worth pursuing the later books? (I found the first book to be clumsily written and a bit boring when I read it; this was a few years ago.) It's been years but iirc the first book is "the worst" of the lot. I enjoyed all of them I've read but they improve after the first one. I'm unsure of how many there are - 8 maybe? - but I'm pretty sure I read 5 of them back in the day.
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Post by tkdco2 on Oct 2, 2014 18:54:57 GMT -6
I only read the first book, and that was years ago. My AD&D group, which I joined years later, had read it too; the Lincoln Tunnels became a running joke.
Just for laughs, I rolled up a character with 5d4; a result of 4 read as zero. Here are the results:
STR 11, INT 3, WIS 7, DEX 9, CON 8, CHA 8
Not very impressive.
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Post by Finarvyn on Oct 3, 2014 4:12:35 GMT -6
Just for laughs, I rolled up a character with 5d4; a result of 4 read as zero. Here are the results: STR 11, INT 3, WIS 7, DEX 9, CON 8, CHA 8 Not very impressive. To be fair, if a standard d4 (1-4) has an average of 2.5 then a funky d4 (0-3) has an average of 1.5, so a funky 5d4 roll gives a range from 0 to 15 with an average of around 7.5. Four of your six rolls are above the average.
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Post by Fearghus on Oct 3, 2014 7:22:09 GMT -6
Wow, my dad got me into these books back in the mid 90's when I was in high school. He picked up an old jacket-less hardback of the first three which might be the same one you have, Fin: Guardians of the Flame, the Warriors. I found the books to be fairly brutal and was caught off guard with Einar's situation. I can't remember the priestesses name, but her and Andrea's situation was horrific. I think this series prepared me for George R. R. Martin.
We all have books that were big impacts on us. I came to this series after having read many Dragonlance Novels (still hadn't read any Tolkien at this point), so it was a bit different in tone. Being young and impressionable this series sat with me for several years and I think the last one I read was Road to Ehvenor (sp?). Bear with me I am too lazy to research the author and novels as I type.
Anyway, yes, Joel gamed at least a little bit. I recall reading an article where his wife mentioned that one day he woke up and said, "Wait, my characters wouldn't act like this", and then started writing the books. So sort of how Elizabeth Moon was inspired to write the Sheep Herder's daughter series based on what she considered bad examples of paladins at the game table, Joel wrote Guardians to explore what it would really be like to live in a fantasy world. There used to be a small convention based on the books. In typical lurker fashion I never went or contributed to the threads, I just read and wondered what it was like to be there.
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